Friday, December 09, 2005

Good news or bad news?

I will deviate from my usual unconditionally pro-tulane stance in order to offer you a researched analysis of the new Tulane policy. Some of you may know what this new Tulane policy is, but I fear that many of you haven’t even noticed that a change has taken place. This change isn’t just a minor tweak in the operation of the university policy, but according to President Scott Cowen it is “the most significant reinvention of a university in the United States in over a century (LA Times, 12/9/05).”

Let’s first take a look at the major changes: http://renewal.tulane.edu/background.shtml

Let me dispel the major rumor: they AREN’T cutting a ton of majors. They are making a bunch of minor changes in a lot of areas and a few really big structural changes, in areas that really don’t affect us. However, all of these changes serve to enhance the academic integrity of the university, and will not do anything to harm it.

Let’s first look at the assumptions of all this change. Tulane is acting in a way that will help mitigate its financial burden and cut expenses while establishing an opportunity to grow. I don’t expect any of the current people at Tulane to like the idea of these changes, because no one wants their undergraduate experience to be altered in any way. However, these changes won’t affect our experience at all. In fact, they will work to benefit the experiences of future students. We should look at these decisions as positive steps toward restoration of our old financial status as well as steps toward enhancing the academic quality of our remaining programs.

It seems that Tulane went ahead establishing these policies without consulting the student body. A few sources with whom I have spoken have indicated that Tulane moved forward with these major changes without input from any of the elected student representatives. This isn’t necessarily a big change from Tulane’s typical method of decision-making protocol. Apparently they, along with MOST colleges, tend to make decisions without major consultation with the student organizations. I don’t see why it would hurt to at least consult with the student government officials know what’s going on, even if they don’t get a big say. Not being a part of these organizations myself, I don’t have a lot to say about this particular aspect, but I know there are many who do. So let’s work toward that, Tulane administration.

Assuming you have read all the specifics, which are found here, I’m going to look at some of the major points and see how they may affect Tulane’s future.

Tulane’s biggest changes are the elimination of many engineering majors, layoffs of 230 faculty, elimination of the “coordinate system” and reduction of our involvement in the NCAA.

To begin with, the changes to the engineering majors is sad, it truly is. I mean, cutting five programs seems to be pretty drastic. But it isn’t a drastic move in any facet. I love all you engineers majors out there, but let me explain. The cuts will affect 229 undergrads, or 3% of all the undergraduates. That’s all. Tulane will, instead, save a ton of money and invest in programs that will help bring them academic recognition and, of course, federal funds (USAToday, 12/8/05). I'm sorry to you 229 undergrads, I truly am.

The next big change is that Tulane will now sponsor only six Division I intercollegiate athletics programs competing in eight sports. They will suspend the others. The changes will affect 100 students — one-third of student athletes. Athletic scholarships will be honored, and assistance will be given to those who wish to transfer (USAToday, 12/8/05). Since I don’t know a lot about NCAA sports, I contacted my friend Blake Rotor, who happens to be quite knowledgeable in this area. Blake writes: The sports situation is mainly a cost-cutting measure. It has been discussed for years that the athletic department loses a lot of money each year and there have been previous discussions about dropping out of division 1 all together, most recently in the spring of 2003. Tulane was granted a waiver from the NCAA for this catastrophe so that they don't have to abide by the membership requirements of being a Division 1 member, but the waiver is only good for 5 years. Normally, in order to be Division 1, a school must have 7 mens and 7 womens sports, or 6 mens & 8 womens, which is they way Tulane has been for 2 years now after the addition of women's swimming & diving, and the removal of men's track. There are also football attendance requirements to be D 1, but those are unimportant right now. Today, the school cut down to 4 mens teams and 4 womens teams which is far below the NCAA requirements. It is even below the requirements for being Division 3, like Emory, Wash U, Chicago and other academic institutions are. In order to be Division 3, a school must have 5 mens and 5 womens sports. Also, this is invalid with the provisions of Title 9 which says that your male/female athlete ratio must be very close, I think within 3% percentage points but I'm not sure, of the school's male/female total student ratio. Thus, changes will have to be made soon to add more sports, or decide to drop out of the NCAA entirely and become an NAIA school like Loyola New Orleans, which would be quite unexpected. The logical thing for them would be to bring back men's & women's tennis, and become a Division III school, without any athletic scholarships, but let baseball play at Division 1, which is possible and had been discussed during the football talks 2 years ago. The sports that were cut were expensive, brought in zero money, and don't bring much prestige or recognition to the school, while it is sad to see them go. – thanks Blake.

Now for the layoffs. I believe this is a purely financial decision. Tulane just can’t afford to keep a ton of people on staff, and consequently the medical school will account for 180 of the 230 layoffs. The university said that it will concentrate on areas where it has attained, or has the potential to achieve, world-class excellence and "will suspend admission to those programs that do not meet these criteria." But the university did not immediately identify which programs that would mean (CNN.com, 12/8/05). We can infer that the money will be reinvested into programs that yield larger financial grants, and thus make a huge difference. I’m sad to see this program go. But when the time comes, I know it will be back.

About 86% of Tulane's 11,390 undergraduate students have registered for spring semester, just under the more typical 90% registration rate by this time of the year. (Take that naysayers). Freshman applications for next fall are up about 12% compared with this time last year (USAToday, 12/8/05). Tulane will be raising academic standards and shrinking the size of the incoming freshman class. However, tuition only accounts for 35% of Tulane's revenue (LA Times, 12/8/05). If we get a huge federal relief grant (which we will), this will more than make up for the loss in tuition as well as help pay for the cleanup effort of the school.

Other change to note- almost every single class at Tulane will be taught by a full-time faculty member. I can’t stress how beneficial that can be to our ability to learn a thing or two.

Additionally, Tulane will be getting rid of the “coordinate system.” This unique system split men and women in hypothetical colleges, respectively Tulane College and Newcomb College. For people who didn’t meet all of these college’s academic standards, many students were accepted in the University College and given the opportunity to transfer into one of the other colleges after completing some coursework at Tulane. These different colleges will now be lumped in one administrative body, The College of Arts of Sciences. Big deal? Nope. Nothing changes academically, except men and women will share advisors, deans and such. What does it mean for the school? They don’t need three different administrative staffs running the same academic programs.

The bottom line, Tulane faces a $200 million operating deficit and these new policies will help solve more than 25% of that. This is a step in a positive direction for more than just financial reasons. Clearly, Tulane has solidified measures that will substantially enhance their academic status. I believe that these academic changes will really do some good for the university, especially in the long term. Yes, some of the changes are pretty significant. Yes, change is a scary. But we all should have gotten used to change by now.


Brett Hyman

227 Comments:

Blogger another texas mom said...

Spoken like someone whose major wasn't one of the ones axed. I think you would put away the pom poms if it had been.

Many of those engineering majors are among the smartest students in the university, and might I add, Filo and Clark (Yahoo), who recently donated $30m to the School of Engineering were from the disciplines that just received the ax.

Let's try this. Save money by axing football since no one attends the games and it isn't self-sustaining like at other Division I schools. They've given several other sports the ax in this, so what's the point of staying Division I just for football?

I have supported Cowan through the Katrina aftermath, but no more. He is the devil.

4:34 AM  
Blogger Ryan said...

they were both from EECS...

why get rid of a program that brought in so much money only months prior?

5:03 AM  
Blogger Nathan Caughel said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

5:33 AM  
Blogger Nathan Caughel said...

This is absurd!!!!

I am a junior EE major and I cannot describe the anger I feel right now. I have been very excited to go back for the last few months, and NOW they decide to axe my program?!?! To me it is irresponsible for the board to make this decision with so little time left before spring starts. I have already called the associate dean of engineering, and he advised me to look at other universities. WHAT?!?

They can’t guarantee that faculty will stay. If I were a faculty member I sure as hell would bail. And let me just make myself very clear. The engineering majors aren’t SOME of the smartest students at TU, we ARE the smartest. This will only negative effects on Tulane’s student body; our average SAT scores are between 100 and 200 points higher than all you idiots. Rankings will surely drop because of this.

If I do finish up, I will be damned if I ever give TU a dime of my money. Why would I? My program wouldn’t exist. I’m sure current alums feel the same way. I’m sure Filo has tried to get his money back, but cannot because of some legalities that TU has taken advantage of.

This is not something to be taken lightly. Many students who are going to be extremely successful in life are now very pissed off, and that is never a positive thing for a university to do. This is nothing to be proud of.

5:35 AM  
Blogger Ray said...

Anyone have any idea how to get in touch with Filo and Clark. I'm sure if they made a huge deal out of this something would get down. My only concern is that Cowen probably convinced them to donate their money in an unrestricted way. So much for my support of him.

5:54 AM  
Blogger cellboy said...

I agree with another texas mom. I am not an engineering major, but I respect them as being some of the brightest students at Tulane. Schools like Emory and Wash U don't have Div IA football teams and they still get plenty of respect. You also have to keep in mind that a football team has like dozens and dozens of players, as well as support staff. In addition, the team was 3 millions dollars in debt last year! Let's axe the football team, keep at least one or two more engineering majors. Or cut something like Dance or Communications instead. Those programs tend to attract less intelligent students (in general).

5:56 AM  
Blogger Tulane CS Alum said...

As a Computer Science Alum (`02), I think Cowen should pick up the tab for my $40,000 in student loans. Debt for a program that no longer exists.

6:32 AM  
Blogger megan said...

"Students in these programs will have the opportunity to continue their studies at Tulane if they can finish degree requirements by May 2007."

So junior and senior engineering majors will be okay. Sophomores might be able to finish if they do the Lagniappe semester and take a ridiculous courseload next year, and/or summer classes (although I don't know the engineering curriculum; maybe this isn't possible). It's only freshman who will definitely have to either transfer or change majors.

7:50 AM  
Blogger Aleksandra said...

Yes, and this is after Tulane practically begged its Freshman to come back. Not only are the Engineering majors gone, however. Many of the doctoral programs have been cut as well. I was scheduled to get my PhD in English, but guess what? They don't offer that anymore!

7:56 AM  
Blogger another texas mom said...

My son has a year's credit with AP, carried 35 hours plus labs his freshman year and 12 hours at his host school. There's very little likelihood that he can carry the intense load to finish. I doubt the profs will be there anyway. If they're smart, they sent their resumes out last night. Unless a sophomore is superhuman, they're out as well.

8:04 AM  
Blogger kevinhanegan said...

What i don't get is Tulane's supposed committment to the "rebuilding" of new orleans. Isn't one of the largest parts of rebuilding actually building things like new levees, stronger wetlands, pumps that work, resiliant power and communication systems, etc. all things that engineers design and create. So instead of capitalizing on huge opportunities for the engineering school, being in the midst of one of the biggest engineering projects in recent times, they decide to cut it in favor of keeping the athletic teams and other majors that whlie necessary and valuable are much less relevent to rebuilding. But its ok, i'm sure the football team will be great at restoring wetlands and repairing levees, and if the levees fail again, the basketball team can help in the repair.

8:21 AM  
Blogger scottthemoron said...

Brett does not realise he is going to a school which is run by adminstrators and board members (appointed by scott) who are suck ups and Brett does not realise that all the 3 majors will be worth nothing, when he is looking for a job.

Oh they will be like, you're from
the school that likes Football and partying and fixing leeves by hand, picking trash as part of community service.. oh no wonder you're also from a excellent fratenity.

This entire set of decisions taken by people who are not even connected to academia.

Brett in the name of looking at the bright side, don't miss the obvious (probably the light at the end of the tunnel is to bright).
The obvious is not what I said in the previous paragraphs, but the obvious is what is yet to come!! which will shatter the dreams of lot of people still.

8:36 AM  
Blogger RealityCheck said...

Brett wrote:
I will deviate from my usual unconditionally pro-tulane stance in order to offer you a researched analysis of the new Tulane policy.

Sorry Brett, I couldn't let that "usual unconditionally pro-Tulane stance" bit go. :-)

Your analysis is good. I agree some changes needed to be made to sustain the school.

Things have changed, and change is going to hurt some people. I'm very sorry for the people that had their majors eliminated. I had many friends who had those majors when I went to school, and I'm sorry to see them go. They should have allowed you all to continue with them until you graduate.

They have been talking about eliminating football since I was there. Unfortunately, now is not the time since I think the school is going to need something to rally around in the Fall. The question is where will they play? The Superdome won't be ready, so will all games be at Tad Gormley? Given the number of people that go, maybe.

If you believe in Scott Cowen, you have to believe the changes are best for the school. After last month's "visiting day", I feel that he's learned from the experience, and if there is another potential disaster under his watch, that things will be handled better.

33 days and counting.

8:49 AM  
Blogger TulaneSnr said...

Do I think that the engineering program should not have been cut? Yes, we need engineers now
Should they have done it before ppl registered(or said something)?
Yes, its not fair

However, Tulane is a business, yes it is a university but it is a business that must generate revenue in order to survive. I have supported Tulane through everything and this is something that I dont know how to react to. I understand why they had to do it money-wise, but I dont understand why they did not cut other programs first, such as football, Im sorry but I dont know ppl who even went to the games and the engineering students are by far some of the smartest kids at Tulane. No I am not an engineer but have a friend that is.

Seniors should not be affected by this change as they will be graduating in May and classes are already set up. Juniors may be, it depends on the deal Tulane made with those professors, such as do they have a contract until end of Spring 07, then juniors should be OK. To the Sophomores, I dont know what to tell you, if you are a die-hard engineer then yes I would transfer, but if you arent sure then take this semester and look into other majors.

Things are going to be different in every aspect. The ONLY thing affecting ONLY certain students is the engineering cut for Sophomores.

If you are so upset then maybe you should start helping Tulane. I know for the holidays I have only asked for donations to Tulane. Maybe if each student did that, then we would have enough money to bring back programs. If you are just complaining and not doing anything then shame on you, shut your mouth and do something. If you are doing something to help the situation then by all means, say what you want until you are blue in the face.

8:57 AM  
Blogger katiewave said...

tulanesnr-

You sound like an immature child in your arguments, but your loyalty is AMAZING and that's what really counts in this situation. Thank G-d we have people like you to help save our school. Your Christmas donations idea sounds great! I can probably do something similar for Hanukkah.

I agree, everyone should only be allowed to criticize the school if you are giving money and helping out. Otherwise, we don't need your negativity and we don't need you at our school. Let's show some pride and get out there and make some real Tulane GREEN!

9:54 AM  
Blogger BME2007 said...

How can you say that?? I am a junior BME and I have paid two full years of tuition. I can say whatever the fuck i want. My entire school is being cut, a school that how more students on scholariship and recently recieved one of the biggest donations by yahoo founders.

So many good faculty will leave, so many engineers will leave. Anyone who considers this a good decision is out of their mind. Yea maybe it doesnt effect YOU in the business school but it effects all engineers. I hope NOTA SINGLE engineer ever donates money when they are slumnis because the program they graduated from does not exist. Maybe the admnistration should take some paycuts.

This is so absurd, I was so pro scott cowen until this. Tulane is ULTIMATELY about its students, not the money, the athletics, etc. and to announce this now...

I truly feel bad for the faculty that remained loyal and will be without jobs temporarily.

10:25 AM  
Blogger tutriplemom said...

to another texas mom,

if you are going to accuse someone of being "the devil", you should at least speak his name correctly.....

10:41 AM  
Blogger another texas mom said...

SORRRRRRRRRRY. Oops, I misppelled that too.

I truly feel for the faculty that stayed the course through this tragedy only to be shown the door. I hope they are able to relocate their families and settle into awesome new jobs.

BTW tutriplemom, I was one of Scott Cowen's greatest supporters until this, which kind of surprised me with the tone of your post.

10:49 AM  
Blogger katiewave said...

bme2007-
This is the EXACT type of negativity I am talking about. If you keep on insulting our school and our president, how are the rest of us going to be able to recover? If this is your attitude about Tulane, then you got what was coming to you, we don't want or need you here anyways.

It's not like we haven't lost anything either, they have taken Newcomb away from us for good. It's sad but I know that Dr. Cowen has our best interests in mind and we will all be better down the road.


PS - tutriplemom/ aka Mrs. H:
You go! People should totally be able to spell Cowen correctly with all the amazing press we've been getting.

11:04 AM  
Blogger Tulane2007 said...

"They are making a bunch of minor changes in a lot of areas and a few really big structural changes, in areas that really don’t affect us. However, all of these changes serve to enhance the academic integrity of the university, and will not do anything to harm it."

I guess the "light at the end of the tunnel" is not for everyone. And by the way, it does affect us, you in the business school may be safe but what about all the other majors? I used to be a major Cowen supporter but his direct attack at engineering is inexcusable. Do you honestly think that the SAT scores at Tulane will stay as high after all the engineers leave? And I wouldn't blame all my teachers for jumping ship, since they just had their life's work ripped out from underneath us, but it leaves me screwed bc as a junior I cannot transfer for senior year and still get a degree, there are rules about attending a college for a minimum of two years before being able to get a degree. And my plans for a masters degree? Obliterated by Cowen. His lack of respect for the sciences just shows that he only cares about money and not about furthering society.

I can't believe that all the students here are not outraged at this. Just because it wasn't you doesn't mean it might not ever be you. I thought we wanted to stand together, as a school, not only as the priveledged whose programs are "worthy". And the engineering school was a good school, it was just small and was unable to achieve national ranking because of it. I am at one of the most prestigious engineering schools in the country for this semester and my teachers at Tulane were better, the standards were higher.

It makes me sick that I supported Tulane for this long and now nobody will support me. I'm a student too, just like everyone else, why don't I deserve as much?

12:04 PM  
Blogger kevinhanegan said...

I'm at LSU this semester, a school that has a very successful and popular football team. Because of Hurricane Rita, one of the games was moved to Monday, and because of the logistical problems of having that many people on campus, school was cancelled for that day. Many people protested that the school was putting football before academics. I took pride in the fact that my real school was too good academically to let something like athletics get in the way of the actual purpose of a university... turns out i was sadly mistaken. And all the nonsense about we will all be much better off. Instead we should say, "we, everyone except engineers, will be better off, and by better off, we mean we no longer have to think about difficult problems like how to keep S. Louisiana and New Orleans from sinking into the Gulf or how to strengthen the levees so that the next hurricane doesn't destroy N.O. all over again. We'll let others take care of that."
Regardless of your major, if you think New Orleans and Tulane need engineers, sign the petition to save the engineering school at http://www.blogger.com/login-comment.do

12:08 PM  
Blogger katiewave said...

“I can't believe that all the students here are not outraged at this. Just because it wasn't you doesn't mean it might not ever be you.”

President Cowen said there wouldn’t be any further cuts, so I don’t see why he would go back on his word.

All hope is not lost, I’m sure we could save the engineering school if we really wanted to or we could at least raise funds to help the students and staff. What about one of Brett’s trademark big parties as a charity function for the engineers? I mean, after all, what do Tulane students do better than throw huge parties?! We need to stop concentrating on the past and focus on the future.

We should keep supporting OUR school. I know it’s a difficult situation but on the bright side it's good preparationi for life.

12:17 PM  
Blogger jdyo said...

http://www.petitiononline.com/savetula/petition.html

12:48 PM  
Blogger chris said...

How can we save the engineering school? It just got cut. I Don't really know what to do as a freshman engineer now. Where I'm at now is a liberal arts school, so staying here isn't really an option. Returning to Tulane isn't looking good anymore now, but I may not have any other real options. I could then transfer to a third school next year, but I'd really rather not. On top of all that, I, like many other students was at Tulane on a scholarship and turned down scholarships to other engineering schools which I cannot reclaim, effectively forcing me to stay at Tulane and give up on engineering or attending a state university.

Tulane really screwed us over this time. I do feel pretty betrayed by them. I was really excited to get back next semester and I bought into how great it's gonna be. I checked the website all the time for updates and was really ready to get there. Now, one month before we return they tell us they cut my school? A little more warning would have been nice.

Also, did anyone else notice how hidden the information on the engineering school being cut was? It just seemed kind of like reading the fine print to get the information.

Anyway, needless to say I'm extremely angry at Scott Cowen, the board, and Tulane in general.

1:38 PM  
Blogger another texas mom said...

"It's sad but I know that Dr. Cowen has our best interests in mind and we will all be better down the road."

"President Cowen said there wouldn’t be any further cuts, so I don’t see why he would go back on his word."

Katie, my son thought the same until yesterday. Scott Cowen promised him a degree from Tulane - and he went back on his word on that. I'm sorry I can't be a cheerleader for Tulane, and I'm sorry that at 6 am I made a typo.

2:06 PM  
Blogger tuengineer said...

forget whether or not this is a bad plan or not. Am I the only one who sees this as morally wrong. I'm a freshman and I've shown a lot of loyalty to tulane by deciding not to transfer. I feel tulane has betrayed me by not only cutting my major but by waiting so long to tell me about it. It seems intentionally sneaky that they put out the course list, complete with all types of engineering courses, like a month ago and now they tell us most engineering is soon going to be cut. How can scott cowen turn his back on students who have shown him so much loyalty and never would have turned their back on him

2:10 PM  
Blogger wave1212 said...

REASON FOR KEEPING FOOTBALL

the reason why they kept football is because there are (with the exeption of the rare yahoo donation) a lot more alumni who will stop donating if we cut football than if we cut engineering. Seeing as most of the dedicated alumni are football fans and only a fraction are engineers.

3:17 PM  
Blogger RollWave23 said...

SAVE TULANE ENGINEERING (and sports and exercise science)

Sign the petition:
http://www.petitiononline.com/savetula/
i

or better yet, call or email Pres. Scott Cowen and give him an earful

(504) 865-5201
scowen@tulane.edu

fax: (504) 865-5202
address for his office:
218 Gibson Hall
6823 St. Charles Ave
New Orleans, LA 70118

3:18 PM  
Blogger SAMTulane said...

It is clear that no one finds fault in any of the decisions besides the choice to cut almost all of the Engineering program. As a Business major this decision doesn't effect me in any signifcant way, but is rather disturbing.

Everyone knew that the financial circumstances created by Katrina would necessitate cuts. However, the question was what would have to go?

I have long support Cowen, he has done a marvelous job in taking Tulane to the next level. Had this disaster not occured, Cowen would have easily succeeded in making Tulane one of the elite education institution in America.

After the Hurricane I was still confident in Cowen ability to achieve this goal. And, I felt all decisions until this recent "Plan" were aiming to put Tulane back on track. However, I believe Cowen has made a HUGE MISTAKE, although a predictable one.

The discussion about the football program in the past and Cowen's subsequent BCS crusade should have been ominous signs as to cuts that would be made. And, the recent rhetoric about Tulane football "carrying the Tulane torch" around the nation, was a clear signal.

Cowen mistake lies in the only distinction that still seperating Tulane from the elite institution of America. That is an education institution MUST, in order to be consider an elite institution, make ACADEMICS the first and foremost priority.

In this respect Tulane has failed in the past and clearly has failed today and will continue to fail in the future under Cowen.

Had this decision been made by an elite private institution (be it an Ivy League, Emory, Wash U, Tufts, etc) NO academeic program would have been cut before an athletic program took its turn on the chopping block.

Cowen has chosen to hold onto his pet project (Tulane football) over an entire academic division (Engineering). Football only directly effect less than 100 students (the players) and DOESN'T effect their pursuit of education. The Engineering cuts directly effect 200+ students academic goals.

Cowen and Tulane touted this Plan enhancing the academic integrity of the university. However, this is impossible when you place atheletics above academics. There is no integrity in this.

To thos Engineering student who have had their academic careers severily damaged, I sincerely hope Tulane does all it can to aid you in repairing what they have done.

3:45 PM  
Blogger greenwave said...

sadly football brings more to the school than engineering.

not only are there a lot of wealthy alumni who have said that they will cease to donate money if football and other major sports are dropped or demoted to D-III, but the amount of free press and publicity that the football, basketball, and baseball teams bring to the school outweighs some of the academic programs by many multiples. we also receive a hefty television deal through conference usa and usually have several games through all of our sports that are televised nationally. our football team was honored on a nationally televised college football awards show on ESPN that was seen by millions and 10 minute video about the trials and tribulations of the team was shown.

another thing that brett was incorrect about is that we cannot keep one or two sports at D-I and drop the others to D-III. we will probably use the five years to build our athletic fund up and add the necessary sports when we have to. right now it is around $40 million, and i am sure we will engage in another big fundraising campaign for the next five years and try to raise it to $60 or $75 million.

3:54 PM  
Blogger Jon Wong said...

I agree with everyone that this is a huge transition for Tulane. I am fortunate to be a senior business student. I am fortunate for the many events that have occurred with this devastating event. I have not been a big motivator for this since I am so close to the “end of the tunnel. ” However, I was an engineer major freshman year and I am sure I pulled down the average SAT score. I think being in the national spotlight is extremely important since Tulane is a top tier academic institution. I also agree that having a high ranking is pertinent since most students’ will chose a school on that factor. But at this point, a month before start of the most crucial semester, there is no need to bad mouth Tulane, Scott Cowen, or anyone who posts on this blog. Do not insult the rest of the “idiots” on campus for those who are not engineers. We might not be as smart as you or study as hard but we still make Tulane what it is. I love Tulane and I know this is a devastating blow to the overall environment of our beloved school.

I also think obtaining assistance from other academic institutions around the country was important, however I wonder if their best interests was to eliminate the engineering program. Yes, the engineering program was not a Top 50 school like Law or Business, but it did require high costs with research and other facilities. I wonder what they will do with the numerous engineering buildings. They have decided to keep biomedical and chemical engineering, which I think were of the better engineer majors compared to the others. I am not sure though. I also heard something about the fact that since most engineer students were scholarship students, it was detrimental to the university. Again, this is just a rumor and has no factual evidence.

I do recommend everyone stop complaining and attempt to help the engineering department anyway possible. I mean, they are still in existence just brutally beat up. I got this email from a current biomedical engineer major asking anyone, everyone who is interested to help: http://www.savetulaneengineering.org/ The email said: “However, I believe these disciplines will also suffer greatly without the support of an Engineering School. This is a giant leap backwards. We must do all we can to oppose these changes.”

As for the athletics department, I have been also fortunate enough to work as a student worker with the Athletic Department since freshman year. I have worked at every type of athletic event either playing stadium/arena music, work the scoreboard, or play things on the Jumbotron. It was great to work at women’s soccer events, tennis events, and even swimming/diving (although it was always so hot in there.) I have been to almost every football game playing music and they were always exciting yet so far away. I’m also excited to go back to Tulane basketball & baseball games this spring. Being a big time school in the south, I think absolutely requires a football team. And yes, no one ever went to the games, and most of those who did were adults, who were also Tulane Booster members. They are the main drivers in keeping the football team alive. If they did cut football, a majority of the funding for athletics would be gone. Also, I wonder what will happen with the New Orleans Saints as well since they are talking about staying in San Antonio I think?

So yeah, sorry I wrote so much. Overall, I think these are devastating changes to Tulane University. And yes, they screwed a bunch of you guys over. I think at this point, the only way to move on is to keep your head up and just keep on truckin. Do as much as you can by going to that website to try to save the engineering department. Let’s stop talking trash and unite like we have throughout the entire semester. Be excited, we are all going back in about a month. I am glad this semester has gone so fast. So lets hold our hands together and throw one down when we get back to Tulane and New Orleans. Have a great weekend!

3:58 PM  
Blogger tu06 said...

wave1212- if tulane added up all the donations they got from the alumni that come to football games, it still wouldn't come close to how much the yahoo guys mistakenly gave tulane.

it is irresponsible of the administration to cut programs without any warning, especially after persuading all of the students to return. that 86% return rate would have been a lot lower if cowen had been more honest with the students. there is no way this was a last minute decision. the folks at the top have most likely been discussing this idea for quite some time. the fact that there was no mention of it until the beginning of DECEMBER is a slap in the face to many students.
by the way, i'm not an engineering major- in fact not one of the changes will directly effect me- but i can still see how wrong this is. i signed the petition and so should many more people.

p.s. the only reason people ever went to the football games was to get drunk. well, kids, the boot is open. get drunk there. cut the football team, cowen. tulane is not a school people go to for the football scene. they go there for new orleans. and in order for new orleans to be rebuilt- WE NEED THE ENGINEERS.

4:06 PM  
Blogger Nathan Caughel said...

Let us celebrate the day that Tulane cut its engineering program, and turned itself into a second Loyola.

Survival to Renewal as just another liberal arts school.

5:29 PM  
Blogger tutriplemom said...

Look at any business in America that has suffered any adverse circumstance requiring it to make cuts -- the cuts are made, and someone get screwed, but life goes on. The Engineers are definitely screwed, but the whole scenario is a product of weighing burdens and benefits. I am sure there is no delight associated with the decisions having been made, but good businessmen, like Dr. Cowen, must make the hard decisions and someone inevitably comes up short. This, unfortunately, is not yet a perfect world.

5:43 PM  
Blogger TulaneSnr said...

"Look at any business in America that has suffered any adverse circumstance requiring it to make cuts -- the cuts are made, and someone get screwed, but life goes on"

I feel really bad for all the Engineering students, but did anyone see NBC Nightly News the other night when a Spanish teacher found out that he was let go through the internet, not once did he say wtf why me? He goes, I understand why they did, I just wish I got a phone. People had to lose jobs INCLD tenured professors because Tulane has to make money in order to survive, no one likes that it is happening, but there are other people who lost more than a major, yes it sucks and Im sorry, but people lost their jobs. Jobs that were binded in contract and they are not complaining, simply saying they understand. I know ppl will write back and say something about what I just said. But think about it, you can transfer, you can change majors, if you are a Snr you will def still graduate with your degree in May and most likely Juniors next year. There are people in worse situations than you but understand why it happened. I dont think that the engineering program should have been cut before other things but like tutriplemom said, sometimes people get screwed, but life moves on.... atleast you have options when others dont.

6:39 PM  
Blogger BME2007 said...

im sorry i am not SUPPROTING a decision that is cutting peoples futures sort. I must be being natvity katietulane. I guess all the research and lifes effort the professors have given tulane arent improtant. i mean why be negative...its only lifetimes of work and other peopels futures. Sorry I am not being postive because cuban studies is more important than eingeering, or glass blowing or pottery.

I guess i should jsut bend over at scott cowens mercy because my scholarship and being an engineer is detrimental to the universities finance.

The fact that they have had meetings about this for months now WITHOUT TELLING ANYONE WHAT THEY PLANNED is enough to rile anyone up. They duped us, went behind our backs then fucked us over. I liked you cowen, i was proud to go to tulane. Then you fucked over 700 students, 200 graduate students + countless faculty. I guess this will be a great experience to grow from right Brett????

6:47 PM  
Blogger BME2007 said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

6:48 PM  
Blogger BME2007 said...

sorry about the typos, but go ahead and assault me for that...

6:49 PM  
Blogger concernedstnt said...

katiewave-
I just read your exchange with bme2007 and am appalled by your ignorance. Newcomb college got ruined? Oh, no you won't get a t-shirt Freshman year and that's it. It's a historical distinction and doesn't affect your academic experience. On the other hand, having some of the brightest kids at Tulane along with most of the engineering faculty leave is a big stab at our academic integrity. Do you understand that the two biggest gifts in Tulane history came straight from engineering graduates-more specifically, computer engineers, one of the majors selected for termination? At our core, we are an academic institution. Why is football given preference over academics? Engineering is all about innovation and the future. This is a short-sighted move by the administration (disguised as something long-sighted) due to a financial crisis and will end up resulting in the loss of money in the future. Consider this: During the promise and distinction campaign, the engineering school met and went past its targeted fundraising goal while many schools did not. Why during a financial crisis, doesn't the University look to its own who are good at raising funds and ask for help? Rather, they cut the ones they need. Sometimes I don't understand institutional suicide...Maybe katiewave, you do. But I'd be more inclined to say you're similiar to a parrot-you spit out what you hear rather than think about it for a minute.

7:01 PM  
Blogger Kev said...

For the Engineering students affected by the cuts, please remember that the withdrawal date is Dec. 15 if that is the path you folks choose.

Can anyone link me to the Engineering enrollment numbers by department? (I know the grand totals, just wondering the # of students left in Biomedical and Chem)

7:34 PM  
Blogger Kevin Dong said...

I read your comments and you guys need to realize one thing. it is not tulanes fault for the financial problems. if you guys watched the news on NBC a day ago; tulane has received no insurance money nor any help from the government. I feel that the blame should be at the government and FEMA and not president cowen. what has the government done for tulane and the other institutions? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!

my friend sent me this link, please sign it.
http://www.petitiononline.com/savetula/petition.html

7:54 PM  
Blogger MM said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

10:07 PM  
Blogger MM said...

you are making mole hills out of mountains if you really think that these changes are not big.

and yes, i reversed the common saying im not an idiot.

10:08 PM  
Blogger MM said...

Did Tulane pay its faculty and staff this past semester?

10:11 PM  
Blogger katiewave said...

Hold back the naysayer assault for just a second. tulanesnr is right, you at least have options here guys (transfer? change majors?). Some of our professers are out of a job.

Nobody WANTED to make these cuts, but the fact is it had to happen. Listen to kevindong, we should be pointing fingers at the government, not Tulane.

I thought Brett's blog was for people who only wanted to hear POSITIVE news about Tulane. Didn't you read his post? Overall, everything's gonna be better in the end. Like Dr. Cowen keeps saying, we really need to focus on the light at the end of the tunnel.

10:23 PM  
Blogger another texas mom said...

The damage done with this decision is far reaching. It isn't just affecting sophomores and freshmen in those disciplines. The engineering programs at Tulane are up for ABET accreditation in a couple of years, and it will be an uphill battle to stay accredited after what was just done. The degrees of the students graduating in the last two classes won't be worth the paper they're printed on. Before I get flamed, I have been around the engineering profession for 25 years. Because of the mass exodus of profs during the last two years of it's existence, the program will be considered by most to be weakened. How sad to have paid $160,000+ for a degree that is not highly regarded.

tutriplemom, sure, employers lay off people all the time. The thing is that people aren't paying $40,000 a year to work at the company. So, I am having a hard time seeing how your corporate analogy applies.

7:21 AM  
Blogger waveroller said...

I just heard somewhere that BUSH1 and Clinton are now handing out the monies they collected for Katrina relief and a great majority like 80% was going to affected colleges in the region. Some must be going to Tulane!!!!

7:35 AM  
Blogger TulaneSnr said...

I don't remember where I saw it but I thought that it was 30% going to colleges (I could be wrong!). However, my guess is that the majority will go to Dillard and Xaviar since they are in over $200 million in debt (Tulane is $100 million). Yes, Tulane will absoluty recieve some money, no doubt about it; however, I dont think that it will be the same amount as the more damanged schools..... I could be wrong though.

7:53 AM  
Blogger cstanton said...

To Brett and his groupies: KatieWave, TuTripleMom, Kev, Wave1212, Kevin Dong, and Jon Wong.

For the moment, lets look at the renewal plan in a neutral light. Instead, I would like to direct your attention to the leadership involved in the decision (http://www2.tulane.edu/administration_cabinet.cfm).

Whether you deem this decision good or bad, there is no debating that it is a major change, as stated by Cowen. My complaint, for now, lies in his qualities as a leader. A good leader would have made a convincing case for these cuts and changes. Instead, unspecific references to financial hardship and we were told that tough decisions were made.

If you want people to believe in you as a leader, then you must be open and honest with those you lead. When the announcement was posted it should have been accompanied by actual figures, justifying the decision. The non-monetary factors should also have been clearly laid out. We are, after all, educated people and should be able to comprehend their arguments. Isn't college about learning to defend and validate the reasons for your stance on an issue?

In short, Cowen is not as 'great' as many insist. He has not been open and honest with the students. The best example of this was his report from Campus claiming minor damage after the storm. Months later, he had pictures of Brown quad with three feet of standing water.

If you really care about Tulane, then you will begin to expect more of your leaders. Settling for less will only produce losing results for all of us.

8:01 AM  
Blogger TulaneSnr said...

Well if it makes the Engineers feel any better I got a letter from Tulane via FedEx Saturday (and they want to save money) that my program is getting cut Marketing.... so the Business School is also affected....But it was never announced on Tulane's website... go figure. I know they had to do it, but they never said it with the announcement about other cuts which is stupid

8:27 AM  
Blogger The Obese Blogger said...

Hey - Your distortions of reality are really starting to IRRITATE me...

The EXSS program was cut too - why are you forgetting that? Also - NOT EVERY student that didn't get into Newcomb or Tulane (because they didn't hit the academic mark) automatically get's into University College (which you imply is less rigorous) and reapplies back into Newcomb or Tulane. The EXSS (A full-time program with a similar degree curriculum requirement as premed) and Computer Science programs fall under University - period. I also concur with the many previous responses regarding the Engineering dept.

I was finally expecting some intelligence and unbiasedness coming from you - from your intro paragraph - but Brett, you are so incredibly one-sided, blind and I would go so far to say as - consistently perpetuating your own version of some twisted truth - that it is actually getting ridiculous.

If you are stating your opinion - for god's sake, just OWN up to it. Don't preface your comments as factual accounts of things - it's outright lying. I find it offensive and inappropriate for a Tulane student to do this -continue to distort facts and get away with it from the the rest of the Tulane readers. It's just crazy.

That said, I'm not saying the decisions weren't in the best long-term financial interest of Tulane -I frankly don't know what went on behind back doors - the various factors that led to some programs being cut and some not. As always though, I'm sure that money and politics were big-players.

My beef isn't with the decisions - although it will be devastating to many faculty, staff, and students.
My beef is with Brett - who continues to report his distortions and his one-sided opinions as bona-fide facts, and informed, thoughful, responsible investigative reporting (maybe you should work for the National Enquirer, QVC, or a PAC).

Brett - Heed this warning: your commentary (as you continue to present it) will come back to bite you in the butt.

8:48 AM  
Blogger Ray said...

"Hold back the naysayer assault for just a second. tulanesnr is right, you at least have options here guys (transfer? change majors?). Some of our professers are out of a job."

So just because some people got screwed more than me means I don't have the right to bitch. I didn't complain when people bitched about having to leave for a semester just because I had it worse as a lifetime resident of the area.

Oh lucky me I forgot I had options. I can go to LSU because no ones going to be able to honor my full scholarship at Tulane.

8:56 AM  
Blogger TulaneSnr said...

oh yeah so I found out that the cost of FedEx Saturday Delievery costs about $30-$35 (for the size I recieved) so that times about 80-90 marketing majors.... thats a good amount of money

8:57 AM  
Blogger Kevin Dong said...

I am here to defend president cowen. i met him in person and i think he is a great leader and a wonderful speaker. Do u think he just wants to cut the engineering program? i know there are alternatives, i am just go into one; the football team. i discussed this issue with my friend last night and he made a good point. the football players who came out of our program, like JP losman, patrick ramsey, Mewelde Moore and shaun king. they arent exactly the best in the NFL but they represent our school. If the football program gets cut or demoted to division 3, we wont be producing any of these NFL caliber players. However, i do agree with the education before sports idea. but without these players and the publicity, would TU be better off in the long run?

9:05 AM  
Blogger Kevin Dong said...

tulanesnr,
i worked as a shipping assistant at a previous summer job. fedex has contracts with schools and companies. the 30$ u see is the "retail" price. my old company had an 75% discount with fedex. if TU has the same discount rate if not more, its not very much money.

9:07 AM  
Blogger cstanton said...

Kevin Dong:
I don't know how any of us will get jobs with out there being a Tulane alumnus playing in the NFL. I mean, why would an employer value a Tulane degree if we don't have any representation in "The League"? I am sure TU engineer alumni will be able to pitch themselves for a job by listing the performance stats of JP losman, patrick ramsey, Mewelde Moore and shaun king. Obviously, TU's real name and reputation lies in its athletic programs.

9:26 AM  
Blogger tuvadad said...

That light at the end of the tunnel?

For those who haven't figured it out YET, it is an oncoming train.

10:19 AM  
Blogger tuvadad said...

Forgive me for intruding on a site for wishful thinkers only, but Mr. Cowen has managed to do the near impossible: diminish his personal credibility to below that of a Louisianna politician.

Everything he has said to date, is a carefully orchestrated fairy tale for the rich and delusional. Soon, transferring to a prominent Junior College will be an attractive option.

In the meantime, alum can look forward to selling their diplomas on E-Bay, just like folks now sell old stock cerificates of defunct companies.

10:26 AM  
Blogger concernedstnt said...

Hyman you sound like the administration's yes-boy. All you do is tout Cowen for anything he does (which up until now was commendable). But when Cowen made a big bad decision, you were so caught up in his underwear, you forgot to think about the ramifications of his policy. How come over 1000+ students have signed the petition in only one day when only 2?? students are being affected? The comments on this last blog accurately reflect the path of downfalls our school is about to go down- and no katiewave- I don't see light at the end of this tunnel- at least not for the academically oriented kids, which I'm hoping is most of the students at Tulane. Maybe your idea of light at the end of the tunnel is Hymans "cool" parties that he's gowing to be throwing. IF so, I really doubt the integrity of this site as accurately conveying messages about Tulane's future.

11:16 AM  
Blogger junior engineer said...

I am a junior electrical engineer. So yes, even though my major is being eliminated I SHOULD be able to graduate with my degree. However, there have been no assurances that the faculty in my department will stay until May 2007. Also, many of my friends in the departments that are being cut may not be able to graduate by then because of missing this semester and because it is not unusual for engineers to need an extra semester to complete the degree requirements. I was looking forward to going back to Tulane because of my friends and the faculty and now my senior year classes might be empty and taught by a bunch of cheap adjunct professors.
Now that the initial reaction of shock, anger, and sadness has passed, I am simply insulted. By reading Cowen's messages he gives the impression that the majors that were cut were not "world class" but the ones that were kept were. He is simply not being honest. If he is getting rid of the engineering majors because the professors and equipment cost too much money and the other majors (regardless of their quality or national prominence) are simply cheaper to maintain and cheaper to improve then he should say so. He should say that no thought to the quality of student was used in his decision. He should say that that the national experts he consulted were only thinking about the bottom line and not the future of the city of New Orleans. He should say that he never consulted any engineers as to what opportunities the biggest engineering project in the country could mean for the school.
He could have sent me an email or letter before the announcement and not insulted my intelligence in the process.

11:31 AM  
Blogger katiewave said...

"Maybe your idea of light at the end of the tunnel is Hymans "cool" parties that he's gowing to be throwing. IF so, I really doubt the integrity of this site as accurately conveying messages about Tulane's future."


I think you've totally missed the point concernedstnt. Brett is one of the few doing something to help. He has said he would donate all of the profits from the parties to the rebuilding efforts. So what's wrong with partying AND helping at the same time?

"At Tulane, first we out think you, then we out drink you."

11:53 AM  
Blogger ziever said...

I love the motto katiewave...but as you said it goes "FIRST we out think, THEN we out drink you." Lets see us think first and then drink! Not the other way around. Therefore, let Hyman re-evaluate his backing of this decision and post another blog that is more concerned with the thinking aspect rather than the drinking aspect.

12:17 PM  
Blogger BootNRally said...

Few things:

If you're engineers are gonna get on here and cry like babies, you could at least not lie when you do.

1) Yes New Orleans does need engineers to help rebuild the levees. They need SEASONED engineers. Maybe Im naive but building something that costs in the billions may not be somethign a bright, high SAT scoring engineering student can tackle.

2) You aren't staying in New Orleans after you graduate. If you say most do you are flat out lying. Tulane students (not just engineering) have a history of fleeing New Orleans after they graduate. Mainly becaue they are yankees but also because the job market in New Orleans hasn't ever been historically strong.

3) Wow. You guys got one big donation. One of you guys made it big. Lets see who played football for Tulane in the lets say the past 4 or 5 years alone that has money to give.. J.P. Losman, Mewelde Moore, Patrick Ramsey, Roydell Williams, Shaun King. Gee Im pretty sure these are all millionaires and Im pretty sure they are all giving back to Tulane. So before you go tooting your donation horn, just realize youre a small find in Tulane's pond. OHH no! You're not gonna give a dime back to Tulane? You think they expect it from you? Way to make idle threats, asshole.

4) The WHOLE engineering program is not cut, liars. There are still two disciplines. So basically what is coming on here, badmouthing a businessman that made a business decision, and crying all day going to do?

If you're running a business and you have to choise to sink, or cut a small percentage of your people, you better damn well bet you're gonna cut those people. If you don't, you never should have had a business to begin with. Cowen did what he had to for thefuture of this University. That's the bottom line.

1:15 PM  
Blogger chris said...

How would you like to spend your first 3 semesters of college at 3 different schools and most likely be forced to spend about an extra $66,000 that you do not know where is going to come from?

1:29 PM  
Blogger cstanton said...

Bootnrally,
You give us faith that the South will rise again. It’s great to see the Louisiana TOPS scholarship at work. Don't let those Yankees fool you with their lies about our hero, president Cowen.

1:40 PM  
Blogger Ray said...

bootnrally:
1) Last time I checked our faculty were degree holding engineers. They would receive grants. I don't see anywhere where students claim they are going to personally rebuild the levees and donate their salaries to the school.

2) I am a lifetime resident of Louisiana and after spending a semester in the Northeast I intend to stay in Louisiana.

3) First of all 2 (not 1) engineers donated $30 mill a piece. I doubt any two of our football players combined will ever donate $60 mill.

4) The businessman had other possibilities for cuts and other ways to make them. How about letting current students graduate?

1:52 PM  
Blogger another texas mom said...

Junior Engineer, well said.

2:26 PM  
Blogger Kev said...

Marketing has become Consumer Behavior-Marketing. It still exists but under a new name.

Helpful chart:

http://renewal.tulane.edu/students_undergraduate_majors.html

2:55 PM  
Blogger TulaneSnr said...

Yeah I saw that chart, but the letter I got said that it was just cut, not renamed. I mean Im not going to complain because 1. I am still able to graduate in May and 2. if they did cut it it was for a reason.... Im just confused


If anyone has problems or questions with what Cowen has done, read The Wall Street Journal, it points out exactly what had to be cut and WHY in order for Tulane to survive.

Ray- if you are a Jnr or Snr you def should be able to graduate with your engineering major. They said that you could if it was completed by May 2007, yes they have gone back on words, but you have it in type that that is the deadline.

3:04 PM  
Blogger concernedstnt said...

BootNRally-
You're an idiot. Your first point misses the fact that the seasoned engineers are the faculty at Tulane, not the students. We, the students, will one day become the seasoned engineers. Tulane prides itself on becoming a world-class research institution. How does kicking out the world-class research part of that sentence (namely, the school of engineering)conform to its goal? Your second point is worse than your first. Are you staying in New Orleans after graduation? If so, what does that matter? Its about the school and its reputation. Where you go after you graduate is your business but while you're a student at Tulane U and afterwards when you're an alumn, you have a say in the institution's decisons (or at least that's what i thought). Your third point is pretty shitty too. Those people you mentioned might be millionaires but the two yahoo guys donated 60 million dollars. Thats not only more than the people you named make, but its a hell of a lot more than they would donate you retard. Two other engineering majors rely on the ones being terminated to go on. You, not being an engineer, don't know jack about interdisciplanary majors and how bme and cheme rely on the faculty of the other majors to teach classes and collaborate on projects. I'm guessing you're not one of the high scoring SAT students you want to see gone or care much about the future of our school; not yours but ours.

5:21 PM  
Blogger Jon Wong said...

Creating a renewal plan for Tulane University in the wake of Hurricane Katrina started shortly after the university administration arrived at temporary headquarters in Houston, according to Tulane Board of Administrators chair-elect Philip Greer. “It has been a long process that has been evolving since the week after the hurricane,” Greer said. The board’s executive committee and a long-range planning committee met frequently to hammer out a plan, incorporating advice from experts, including a number of university presidents. The resulting plan is wonderful for Tulane, Greer said. “I think this is a terrific plan for this university,” he said. “I think it’s going to be a quality place that we’re all going to be very proud of, that the city’s going to be proud of. We’re doing so much good for Xavier and Dillard, for the public school situation, for the charter school that we’re starting. We can have a terrific undergraduate college, with quality programs at every level, graduate and undergraduate.”

Board chair Cathy Pierson shares Greer's enthusiasm about the renewal plan. “I’m extremely excited about the vision that Scott (Cowen, president of Tulane) and the board have laid out,” she said. “What we’ve done is basically deal with the financial problems the university faces as a result of Katrina, and at the same time, we have re-envisioned Tulane in a way that will build on its strengths, work with the region and provide an incredible educational opportunity for our students in the 21st century.”

Board member Darryl Berger likes the entire plan, but has a favorite part. “The great undergraduate education—and experience—at Tulane is one of the hallmarks. And perhaps the most compelling hallmark will be all the programs which collectively will put Tulane in the absolute forefront, absolutely No. 1 among all colleges and universities in the country.”



It is so weird to see people so excited for this program. This article was posted on Tulane’s website and the comments just do not seem right. I suppose the long-term strategy Tulane strives to achieve is just to make everyone equal students within the undergraduate level. Engineer students have always taken their own types of courses while most other majors have a liberal arts requirement. It’s like they are doing this so they can replicate other universities that have minimal schools within the university, a cost-saving plan and a more in-depth focus on liberal arts requirements. Of course, there is always a political game with this idea and I personally think if students know their major, then they should take courses that are related to their major as soon as possible.

Who knows, maybe in the long-run, Tulane will actually replicate other elite schools in the process. It is not absolutely necessary to have engineering to be a top-tier school, though it would help. In addition, at least let those students who are sophomores and freshmen to finish their studies. The changes can be implemented at a more gradual pace. Most major changes within a large organization or any organization takes time. There exists much cynicism within everyone within an organization when such a drastic change takes place. This is what we are seeing now. Hopefully the administration of Tulane will see that if this is the most significant change for any university in 100 years, then they should also take their time to make these larges changes.

On a side note, does anyone else receive statements from accounts receivable by email that is not actually their statement? I have gotten 2 statements of 2 separate people. I checked them out on facebook and they were both freshmen.

5:30 PM  
Blogger Ben W said...

i dont agree with their decision at all to cut the engineering and comp sci, i think if the cuts ar to be made at least let the freshman and sophomores finish out at Tulane. However with that said, I think they may be taking a minimalist approach and realize they cant be everything to everyone. I mat princeton for the semester and undoubtedly its one of the ebst universitys in the country, they dont have a law school, a business school or a medical school. They realize they cant be eveything to everyone so they take some areas they are good at at try to excel in those. Just a thought to put some things in perspective.

5:43 PM  
Blogger TulaneSnr said...

Ok, I get how programs (inlcd mine in the business school) are getting cut..... ppl are still on academic scholorships and lose it if they drop below a certain grade point, correct? Ok.... so my question is, for the athletes that are on athetic scholorship but whose programs got cut.... how is that going to work out? Is Tulane going to support them while they dont do a sport or do they have to do public service? Im just wondering if anyone knows.... cuz some of that money could go into restoring cut programs

7:24 PM  
Blogger Tiffany said...

I lost my major and have no choice but to transfer to another school I'm so upset I loved Tulane. Exercise Science was my major

7:35 PM  
Blogger BME2007 said...

I have recently discovered the most tragic news. 2am curfews most likely through lagniappe. Aparently we are back in high school. But this is a city wide decision because there are not enough cops to work around the clock. New orleans with a curfew, never thought Id see that day....

8:37 PM  
Blogger katiewave said...

bme2007,
Do you have a source that says curfew will continue through Langiappe or is that just your guess? Or are you just trying to annoy the rest of us who STILL go to Tulane?

Even if we do have to be home by 2am, we're still gonna have fun. Brett is like Van Wilder with his party plans. And since they're for a charitable cause, everyone's still gonna go and be wild. Nothing can stop us.

8:49 PM  
Blogger Tulane2007 said...

There's not a single Ivy League School without a comprehensive undergraduate engineering program. (Trust me, I checked before writing this)So what's Tulane striving for? Short of Ivy League? Maybe it'll excell in a few programs but it won't be enough to be considered a world class institution, just a nicely specialized school. I'm not saying this to make people who didn't get their programs cut mad. I'm worried about the vitality of the institution in the long run. This may be a quick fix but I'm not sure this is the best final answer. And engineering alums do donate, there were at 16 people/funds I saw on the 2004 annual engineering report who donated more than $10,00 plus others who donated $1,000 and up. This decision to cut programs made me sure that I need to go to grad school before going into the workforce so I have at least one respected degree from a place that still exsists.

10:24 PM  
Blogger Marmoset said...

Alrite Kiddies,
Stop worrying about the curfew (And yes...it's real). First of all, big effing deal about the curfew. What does that mean? You think cops will be waiting for you outside of the Boot? "Alrite guys, it's 2:01 AM and past curfew. Put your hands behind your backs." The curfew deal is fine. Welcome to New Orleans Police Force. The bars close at 2AM but that's it. Driving home is not a problem. Heaven forbid ya'll are forced into curfew for a city that JUST went through a disaster. Yes, we JUST did. I hope that the majority of Tulane students came to my city for more than just Ms. Mae's and Bourbon Street.

10:24 PM  
Blogger Marmoset said...

Oh...and Brett?
"I'm sorry to you 229 undergrads, I truly am."

This just reeks of patronization. Or was I the only one to feel this way?

10:30 PM  
Blogger Marmoset said...

Oh...and Katiewave,
Excellent job with the "Van Wilder" reference. :::Rolls eyes:::

Sorry...just so much good material in here. Vindictive? Hell yeah.

10:41 PM  
Blogger Ray said...

TulaneSnr:
I am a Sophomore (class of 2008) which is possibly the worst situation to be in.

1:39 AM  
Blogger TulaneSnr said...

Ray- Im really sorry, I totally agree that being a Sophomore you were absolutly put in the back. I wish that they rethought the plan to let all current students finish their desired major. I really wish that there was something that the students could do for your class. I have to call the number about my major being cut and I'll see what they say for you guys. Im really sorry, thats unfair.

Ok guys... a curfew, not that big of a deal. Who would have even thought that we would be able to get back to NOLA 3 months ago? Even Cowen had is doubts. All that means is that instead of going out at 12 or 1, we go out at 10 or 9 (earlier than usual). Hey, you can go to school in New York or Boston where bars have last call at 1230. You never know what the future holds, maybe they will extend it, maybe they wont. If you really want it extented the best way to show that is to observed the current curfew, be respectful, help clean up the city, and write a mature letter to the mayor asking to extend it for legit reasons (not I want to drink later, but the culture of New Orleans thrives at night and we want to put more money into the economy) Ok so I dont have great reasons, but come on let's be glad that we are at least going back.

8:10 AM  
Blogger tulane0? said...

To answer TulaneSnr @7:24pm's question:
Ok, I get how programs (inlcd mine in the business school) are getting cut..... ppl are still on academic scholorships and lose it if they drop below a certain grade point, correct? Ok.... so my question is, for the athletes that are on athetic scholorship but whose programs got cut.... how is that going to work out? Is Tulane going to support them while they dont do a sport or do they have to do public service? Im just wondering if anyone knows.... cuz some of that money could go into restoring cut programs

Answer:
The athletes that were cut will still get to finish at Tulane with their scholarships.They will not lose them.

9:34 AM  
Blogger chris said...

I recently wrote a letter to Scott Cowen, and part of it was this:

> Also, what sort of plan does Tulane have for students who accepted admission
> to
> Tulane, accepted a scholarship, and turned down other scholarships at other
> engineering schools? We cannot reclaim those scholarships now and most
> likely
> will not be able to afford to attend a private university to study
> engineering.
> What do you have to say to us?

What was his answer?

Chris:

Tulane will maintain scholarship aid for engineering students at its current
level as long as the student maintains the academic performance required for
the award. This will be the case even for those students that select another
Tulane major outside of engineering.

President Cowen


He obviously did not even bother to read the letter before sending out this generic answer. Either that, or he has no real answer to my question and is instead pretending like he answered my question to avoid the real answer.. that they can't do anything for us.

2:48 PM  
Blogger patty said...

I realize that this is a very big change, and that is why I do not understand why this has come to a war of SAT scores. It is like high school all over again. I think that people are a little more than a test score. And don't personaly give a dam what score you got, it does not make you perfect and me an idiot. The engineering students, who feel that they make the school, and that they and thier teachers are the only engineers who can tackle the levies, are arogant.

I do, however, think that if the cut was between football and engineering, football should have obviously been cut. I have a feeling though that other majors would still have been cut, and no matter what the major someone will be effected, even if the rest of us are below the great and wonderful engineering students.

3:40 PM  
Blogger Marmoset said...

Chris,
Here is the solution, but it might not be 100% ideal for you. If you are absolutly set in your mind to have an engineering degree then stay at Tulane. "What?! Stay at Tulane WITHOUT an engineering major?" Oh yes my friend and here is why. First of all, during your year at Tulane, you will be able to get all of the nitty-gritty courses out of the way (IE Language, Writing Intensive and Humanities). If you do well, transferring the following year will not be a problem with the strong possibility of being awarded an academic scholarship at your choice university. You will STILL have your Tulane Scholarship during your first year as Cowen said.
Life for us locals haven't been 100% ideal at all. But you know what? We are still here and rebuilding. If we can rebuild from the most destructive disaster in U.S. history, then I suspect you can rebuild from a decision made for the longevity of Tulane University.

3:42 PM  
Blogger chris said...

Marmoset,
Yes, I understand things are not well in New Orleans. And yes, I could stay at Tulane for a semester. It's just I would like some amount of stability in college. 3 colleges in 3 semesters is not what I planned on. And I do not think it will be so easy to get financial aid this time around, so the 3rd one will probably be a state school. I don't want to say I'm better than a state school, I think I'm just dissapointed that after working so much in high school for a scholarship I now have to settle for a state school. That's all.

4:54 PM  
Blogger Marmoset said...

Alrite...so you are a freshmen. That explains ALOT of your anxiety. A little story of myself if you can put up with it. I graduated from Highschool with a less-than steller GPA. Knowing that my chances for Tulane acceptance was low, I went to a less rigorous school. Who would have thought, I excelled in college, ending that year with a very admirable GPA. I then transfered to Tulane University and they awarded me right off the back with a scholarship that has made college payments much easier. You get the grades Chris, and you can go anywhere. I want to stop short of the cliche of "The sky's the limit," but I think you get the idea..being an engineering major and such. I understand as well your apprehension of a State School. LSU, though I love the football team, is not the place for me. I need more of an atmosphere that Tulane provides. So do not worry, young academic, the road of uncertainty does not go on forever.

P.S. I ended up at my original university for this semester. Kind of humorous I believe.

5:28 PM  
Blogger RollWave23 said...

http://www.savetulaneengineering.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=6

Make a pledge to donate money to Tulane IF the programs arent cut!

Doesn't matter what amount...every little bit counts

And you know that money would go towards buying drinks at the Boot or Brunos. But think about it...without your friends by your side...its not as fun to drink. Don't let engineering go. Don't let people leave Tulane.

6:55 PM  
Blogger chris said...

Well, marmoset, I hope you're right and everything works out in the end. I'll figure something out, I'm an engineer right? I will unfortunately most likely end up at Tulane this semester. It's not that I don't think it will be great, it's jsut not great having to leave agian so soon. Anyway, whatever happens, I'll deal with it.

7:26 PM  
Blogger cstanton said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

8:29 PM  
Blogger cstanton said...

Marmoset,
Keep your "heart warming" story to yourself. You have no right telling these students that they shouldn't be worried or upset about their situations just because the problems facing NO residents may be greater. The state of NO should not be a factor in this discussion. Also, you do not know whether or not they will be able to receive scholarships after transferring to another school. Sure, it is possible, but some of these students turned down full rides to top engineering programs. Unless you’re willing to personally write them a check, mind your own business. Let them make their own decisions.
Your tone sickens me. You posture yourself as an advisor, telling people how to think, feel, and act. People like you and Katiewave should be ashamed of yourselves for telling people how they should or should not feel about the situation.

8:37 PM  
Blogger Marmoset said...

Dearest Sir,

I do not believe that I told Chris how to think or feel one bit. I only laid out his possibilities that were available to him. To the argument about bringing up New Orleans residents, it brings a shining example of character to him. I am not trying to sell him rose-tinted glasses my dear sir, only another option to give him peace. I am also sorry that my opinion sickens you, sounds like a weak stomuch. Might I suggest you quit bringing people like Chris down with your negative attitude? Do not give up Chris, no matter what others say.

10:42 PM  
Blogger Marmoset said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

10:42 PM  
Blogger MM said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

12:14 AM  
Blogger MM said...

ray:

yeah i agree a semester in the north really does suck (no offense). I came to the same conclusion. If there is one good thing that has come from this I know I am going to continue to live in Louisiana for the rest of my life.

12:16 AM  
Blogger nytulaneparent said...

What is the relationship between the 60 million Yahoo just gave Tulane

http://www.eng.tulane.edu/news/2004_filo_donation.php., 30 million for engineering scholarships, and this decision?

hypothesis 1: the 30 million for scholarships would have actually cost the school money because it did not cover the cost of engineering education.

hypothesis 2: a desperation move to capture the 30 million for anticipated tuition defaults or other immediate needs (tuition not yet due).

4:34 AM  
Blogger BME2007 said...

katiewave have u yet attended a day at tulane? and the van wilder reference is the most high school thing i have ever heard. if u think a 2am curfew is no big deal u have never partied in new olreans. the whole point of the boot is everyone goes at 230-5 am or to close it out at six. no one gets there before that except on 50 cent nite. if u have not attended tulane yet...yes this means you freshman who talk about new olreans like youve actually partied there...please shut up. 2 am curfew is the death of the boot, ms maes, the palms and most importantly...ME. Im sure they will lift this for mardi gras and to the idiot that said its not like theyll have cops outside the boot at 2:01....the bars close at 2 now regardless if a cop is outside or not. Cant really keep drinking in the bar if the bar is closed now can you.

Im sick of people who have no clue what they are talking about because they have never attended more than a half of an oreintation day telling me how I should feel about Tulane. And countering by saying I need to be supportive. I should be supportive cause the school I was enrolled with is being cut because appartently it costs more money than the 3 million dollar debt the 2-10 football team, that gets less attendance than a high school football team, annually puts out. I should be supportive because my drinking rights are being revoked from me and my drunkeness ends before daylight. Hell, what could I possibly be negative about.

5:23 AM  
Blogger Marmoset said...

Dear Cupcake,

Here's the deal brother. Now, you not getting any news from down here is understandable. New Orleans is probably your "valhalla" after the little podunk town you grew up in in the North. Still, thats cool. Pay attention now: the curfew is 2 AM. That means that: 1) Bars now close even earlier (Fats had closed at 1:30). 2) No matter where you are, walking or driving, you can get stopped by NOPD and judging on their mood you may or may not be taking a trip downtown.

Oh yeah, Cupcake? You sound like an esteemed individual that makes Mommy and Daddy proud. If all you care about is boozin', I am pretty sure Michigan is higher than us. Apparently they do not have a curfew there. Class of 07 right here for ya.

5:55 AM  
Blogger sadmom said...

i've read the responses since the announement of the scaling back. i have to wonder why no one has questioned the timing of this announcemnnt. classes are scheduled to start in a month. students have already registered for classes. no one can convince me thils decision was not in the workks for some time. if the school had given notice earlier, students could have made alternate plans for next semester. it seems unlikely they will be able to do so at this late date.

i am a parent of a freshman in engineering. since katrina, i have been behind the administration and felt they were doing the best they could under the circumstances. now i feel naive and totally betrayed. not because my child's major has been cut. but because they chose to announce this too late to make alternate plans. it seems that the statistic of 84% returning is more important the the students themselves.
as a native of new orleans, i understand the importance of the survival of tulane. however, it saddens me that dr. cowen and the board have placed an institution above the students and have treated them in this callous manner.

i also feel it was totally callous for the affected students to learn of these changes via the web site. it would have been more considerate for the letters to go out the same day the announcment was made. of course, what would have been best was for the news to come at the same time the date was announced the spring semester would begin.

6:10 AM  
Blogger sadmom said...

i've read all the comments posted since the downsizing has been announced. is no one else questioning the timing of this? surely, these changes have been in the works for some time. why did the administration wait til it was too late for the affected students to make alternate plans for next semester? it seems the 84% returnig students statistic is more important than the students themselves.
it also seems to me that letting the students this affects learn of the changes via the wesite is callous and inconsiderate. letters should have been fed exed the day the announcements were made. that would have at lest made it seemed as though the school cared about the students and not thought of them as an afterthought.

6:22 AM  
Blogger tuengineer said...

so i don't see this up here but i just got an email saying that freshmen engineers in programs that will be cut will be reimbursed up to 2000 dollars to visit other schools. don't think im not spending every penny of that. PS im fairly sure i know who katiewave is and yeah she's a freshman

6:41 AM  
Blogger CBR07 said...

There are scholars, presidents, and administrators all over the country admiring Tulane University at this moment. Our president is facing tough decisions. If you want the future of Tulane to be a promising one, I think that no matter how much you might disagree on a particular issue, you have to have trust that everything will work out in the end. Why attend a college filled with administrators that you cannot trust? We are all in a tough position and we can’t expect anything to work out if we do not trust our president.

56 million dollars will be saved every year. This money can go to strengthening so many other programs in the long run.

For the Newcomb women, how about getting involved in programs that empower the young women of New Orleans? There are many ways to maintain the great legacy.

On a side note, one of my majors was cut as well. I see this as an opportunity to take on a major that I would have never had the courage to do until now. After all, it’s worth it to me. As long as I can stay at Tulane.

I encourage you all to remain strong, understanding, and optimistic.

7:46 AM  
Blogger katiewave said...

bme2007-
Thanks for the page long letter informing me about the New Orleans night life. Sorry child, but I've been doing it longer than your nerdy ass. I'm amazed that you're an engineer and still actually manage to leave Boggs enough to socialize with normal people. (guess that's not a problem anymore is it!) In light of everything, if you are saying drinking past 2am is more of a concern than the city's recovery or majors being cut, then you are worse than the freshman who you attack (the ones who have never been out and think the Boot is the best place on earth). There are bigger problems to face than maintaining a buzz until daylight, how about worrying about helping the millions of families left homeless. Calm down about your "drinking rights being revoked" and take a puff on your inhaler, everything's gonna be O.K. next semester.


P.S.- you forgot F and M's ;-)

8:49 AM  
Blogger tumom5 said...

why is no one questioning the timing of this? doesn't it seem odd that the students affected by this change consulted with their advisors and registered for classes and nothing was mentioned about how they would have to change schools to continue with their major?
it seems that the administration likes that 86% returning student satistic more than the students themselves.
by waiting til now to make the announcement they have made it difficult or impossible to make alternate plans for the spring semester.
i have been supportive of the administration and felt they were doing the best they could under a difficult situation. now i feel naive and betrayed.
i also feel the announcment of these changes via internet is very callous. why couldn't they have sent the letters to the affected students the day the changes were made public. sending letters days afterward makes it seeem like an afterthought. may sound petty but the school should be doing whatever they can to ease thes changes.

8:53 AM  
Blogger TulaneSnr said...

"The departments of Biomedical Engineering and Chemical Engineering have not been eliminated; they will be merged into a new School of Science and Engineering as of July 1.

Thus students majoring in either of these disciplines will be able to complete their degrees at Tulane. The degree programs offered by the other three departments will not end until June 30, 2007, so all current juniors and seniors in those majors will also be able to complete their degrees at Tulane. We are currently working on a plan that will allow current sophomores majoring in programs that will be eliminated to complete their degrees at Tulane as well. "

This was from the dean of the engineering school (go to the renewal website of tulane its there under students) so hopefully the sophomores can continue with their degrees! More info is being sent out today to those students.... hope that this makes things seem a littler brighter

8:59 AM  
Blogger Ray said...

Yeah and in the new FAQ on the renewal.tulane.edu page it says this:

"I am in one of the majors that will no longer accept students. How long do I have to complete my degree?

Tulane is committed to making it possible for all students who entered the university in the fall of 2003 or earlier to complete their entire program at Tulane. Students entering in 2004 or 2005 may be able to complete their program through a combination of options including: attendance in the Lagniappe term, summer sessions, course waivers, course substitutions and transfer credit for courses taken at other institutions. Details regarding these options will be distributed shortly."

So I'm assuming I just have a lot of hard work ahead and have to go to summer school this year and next in order to graduate on time. Looks like senior year will be all electives.

10:48 AM  
Blogger another texas mom said...

tumom5, we have a friend in human resources at a major corporation. At a recent recruitment fair for engineers, it was rumored that the engineering school was getting the ax. He felt so badly when he found out that son didn't know and had to find out in an email, since he figured the students and faculty had to know what was in the rumor mill. That was a couple of weeks ago. He also feels that this was not a result of financial reversal, but of a president using the hurricane as an excuse to make the sweeping changes he wants. That was the first thing out of my son's mouth when the email came. Certainly the 86% and the tuition they bring is foremost in their minds.

ray, they can finish, but how much will the degree be worth when the mass exodus of faculty occurs and the ABET acreditation is lost because of it? This is where I really need that crystal ball.

1:48 PM  
Blogger nancy s said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

2:25 PM  
Blogger nancy s said...

"Why attend a college filled with administrators that you cannot trust?"

That is a question both my son and daughter ask -- and have written Mr. Cowen, to ask -- even though the decisions made have marginal impact on them directly.

Their number one issue -- and their parents' -- is the absolute lack of integrity in the process. For the third time (the first being the tuition agreement, the second the no-transfer understanding), an administration hides its decisions behind a shield of unaccountable, inaccessible academcians.

Further, no facts supporting this decision have been shared. No student or alumni have been involved in the process. An announcement leaked to the media before those directly affected. A series of press releases with the insiders commending one another for their "vision" and "courage", as if stating it is so makes it thus.

Could anyone concoct a more inept plan to bring the Tulane body together to fight for survival? Mr. Cowen, instead, has unleashed one emotional faction after another upon the whole. This is "vision"? This is "courage"?

This is an administration that you can trust?

This is a Board that you can have faith in?

"There are scholars, presidents, and administrators all over the country admiring Tulane University at this moment."? Don't confuse sympathy for admiration.

No, we don't buy it.

Not only are the particulars of the restructuring decision suspect, but the manner in which parents and students were deliberately misled, if not directly lied to, is very upsetting. That kind of behavior does not engender trust.

Trust is earned; or in this particular case, squandered.

2:36 PM  
Blogger dirtysouth117 said...

CAN WE PLEASE DISCUSS THIS 2 AM CURFEW? BRETT, MAYBE A POST ABOUT IT? THIS IS MORE UPSETTING TO ME THAN ANY OF THE NEWS I HAVE HEARD ABOUT TULANE SO FAR. IM SURE MANY OTHER KIDS WOULD LIKE TO BE MORE INFORMED ABOUT THIS TOPIC

2:36 PM  
Blogger joe tulane 06 said...

I agree that we need a discussion about the curfew. Many students are just not aware of it at all. It appears that Cowen and the administration are deliberately withholding this information from us. I saw him speak in Boston about a week and a half ago, and he made no mention of the curfew, even while conveniently pointing out how safe New Orleans is right now.

It's not just about being able to stay out late at bars. I'd be willing to bet that many of us would be unhappy about living in a place where we do not have the freedom to go outside after a certain hour. Cowen is painting a very glossy picture of life in New Orleans, but I think that he is misleading a lot of people.

2:57 PM  
Blogger Ben W said...

wow now cowen is catching criticism for not anouncing the curfew in the city? thats a citywide thing everyone should know about it, it may not be common knowledge but blaming cowen for that too, now you've just found yourself a convenient scapegoat

3:31 PM  
Blogger jdyo said...

Everybody needs to calm down about the curfew. First of all, I haven't seen one piece of evidence that indicates that the curfew will last much longer. Local business owners are a lot more upset about this curfew than we are, and they are putting pressure on the city to lift it in less effected areas, such as uptown and the quarter by New Years to help boost tourism. Second, when I was in New Orleans in November the curfew had little effect on my behaivor. Sure, last call was at 1:45, but I didn't go home until 8 am and I wasn't arrested. You see a cop, you dive in the bushes and try not to spill your drink. Simple as that.

3:37 PM  
Blogger Drew Ward said...

The fact is that this is just one step in Cowens master plan to completly convert our great school into a feeder program for Med School and Law school, a tool for snaggin government and corporate research dollars, and making the whole undergrad program centered around the Business School....can you blame him...after all, who needs to know how to read and write.

The fact is that everything Cowen and his Cronies have done before, during, and after Katrina has been idiotic, they've been nothing but incompetent, and every action they have done has been dishonest, underhanded and crooked as hell.

It's time we organize -- students, parents, and alumni and take back this university from the special interest controlled idiots who are running it. Students are at the core of any university and they need to recognize that. or did they maybe forget that the purpose of a univeristy if to actually teach students.

please read my letter I'v sent to several newspapers at:

http://takebacktulane.blogspot.com

thanks,

drew

4:22 PM  
Blogger Marmoset said...

MOUNT UP TROOPS! We are going to war! Strap on your armor and your swords! READY THE HORSES! Who are we fighting?! WELL TULANE ADMINISTRATION OF COURSE! That evil dictator COWEN and his sinister plans to take the reigns of our beloved land of Tulane, NO I SAY! If we hack at the Beast de ADMINISTRATION long enough, we just might bend it to our own WILL! What? Who cares if we do not KNOW that facts? LET THE ARROWS OF VERBAL ACCUSATIONS FLY!!!

6:05 PM  
Blogger Marmoset said...

Oh...and Dirtysouth117? The police will kill you till you are dead if you are out after 2AM.

6:08 PM  
Blogger cstanton said...

Marmoset,

You first said

Alrite Kiddies,
Stop worrying about the curfew (And yes...it's real). First of all, big effing deal about the curfew. What does that mean? You think cops will be waiting for you outside of the Boot? "Alrite guys, it's 2:01 AM and past curfew. Put your hands behind your backs." The curfew deal is fine. Welcome to New Orleans Police Force. The bars close at 2AM but that's it. Driving home is not a problem.


Then you said:

Pay attention now: the curfew is 2 AM. That means that: 1) Bars now close even earlier (Fats had closed at 1:30). 2) No matter where you are, walking or driving, you can get stopped by NOPD and judging on their mood you may or may not be taking a trip downtown.

Most recently you said (sarcastically, I assume):

The police will kill you till you are dead if you are out after 2AM.

Care to explain your contradictions?

In response to Might I suggest you quit bringing people like Chris down with your negative attitude?

I am very sorry that you perceive statements of truth and fact as negativity. Perhaps the situation is, what it is. Learn to deal and don't assume you know everyone's situation. I'm not sure who displays greater ignorance, you or Katiewave...

6:31 PM  
Blogger cstanton said...

Marmoset,
I know what you are up to. I recognize that your intentions are to rile people up. Leave this blog to those of us who would actually like to discuss the issues.

6:38 PM  
Blogger TulaneSnr said...

The whole deal about the curfew (from what information I have heard) is because there are not enough people on the police force. Most are working the day making sure people are out of the 9th Ward by 4pm and no earlier than 9am (the residents are currently only allowed in for certain hrs). So the whole reason for the 2 am curfew is because there are not enough police out at night to patrol and make sure things are safe. Things may change after the New Year, but as much as the curfew is no fun (and Im a snr so I have not once had a curfew there) it makes sense why it is there. Let's just hope the situation improves and the police force gains strength, only then will the curfew be lifted. Worse case senario? Curfew stays and we just go out at 9 instead of 12, it's still dark out then so its not too big of a stretch.

7:13 PM  
Blogger Quin said...

I think you are dead wrong about dropping sports to Division III. Football provided countless hours of exposure for the university this season, and kept the plight of Tulane fresh on the minds of the general public (who, believe it or not, watches ESPN and college football). Furthermore, football, basketball, and the ensuing revenue generated by the CUSA TV contract provide a lot of money (which is subsequently drained by the no-revenue women's sports). Finally, dropping sports to Division III would drastically increase travel costs. Instead of playing opponents in Houston or Hattiesburg, the team would have to travel to Illinois and the East Coast. Just an all-around terrible idea.

7:22 PM  
Blogger uncertain future said...

i'm a sophomore mechanical engineering major, and i spent friday morning crying on the phone to dean mehrabadi (spelling) because he talked me into coming back to tulane and not transfering. That being said,

brett seriously, the engineering school draws a lot of very crucial tulane students and to chalk us up to 2% is just not fair. This also discredits the degrees of people who have graduated, and puts people like me in a horrible position

The rest of you, sports are an important part of a college experience as well. The basketball team and the football team make us more than just a bunch of people taking classes, it makes us a college.

and finally, being in a fraternity and enjoying parties does not make you any less of a student at tulane, i think it makes you more, and when you graduate and say you are from tulane, people will know that you not only took exceedingly difficult classes and recieved a world class education, you also have a personality and know how to have a good time.

the school needed to restructure, and if they had to cut engineering programs, its their call. what makes it inexcusable is the timing.

7:42 PM  
Blogger Ben W said...

re: drew ward

youve uncovered it! theres a conspiracy! with that statement you probably belives the rumors farrakhan has claimed that bombs blew up the levies and it was government backed! come on im all for first amendment rights but lets not get too radical

8:27 PM  
Blogger Wave06 said...

I agree that a university is there to serve the students, but if the school doesn't make any changes and doesn't have enough money, then they won't be able to serve the students or the community.

While I feel bad for the people who lost their majors or sports, it is really only the freshmen & some sophomores in those engineering schools which are forced to change or transfer, and that is a tiny, maybe 3% of the whole student population. So a business decision was made for the good of 97% of the students and the future of the university at the expense of a few current engineers in an underperforming & expensive major. That seems like a pretty solid decision to me, especially considering that it is very hard to compete for dollars and top students in, since so many other schools also provide engineering. It's good that we can keep institutions that are unique to Tulane, such as the Murphy Institute, Deep South Regional Humanities Center, Amistad Center & Stone Center for Latin American studies.

And I'm not so worried about the curfew. I'm sure things will change when 6,000 Tulane undergrads come back to town and I don't see the Boot closing with a packed bar of thirsty rich kids.

8:51 PM  
Blogger aRadler said...

SACE TULANE ENGINEERING!
there is more to loose than 3%
Help the cause, and sign the petition at www.SaveTulaneEngineering.org

9:31 PM  
Blogger Marmoset said...

Dearest Cstanton,

Obviously you take me way more seriously than you are supposed to. Am I trying to rile the students up? Nope...

I Just think that the morbid tone that many of the student's are taking is a tad alarmist. There is not huge scheme being hatched to deprive us of all Tulane. To your attempt in emulating another blogger who I find very humorous, my first response which you so eloquently quoted was an assurance of the laid back atmosphere of the city. If you are smart, you won't get into trouble. The second part of which you quoted was to lay down the law...down to the definition that the Police gave us. As to the part in which I told my fellow student that if the police caught him he would be "killed until he was dead," well that is just poking fun at the "end of the world" notion of the the curfew effect. To the comment upon my treatment of Chris, I would be scared too, expecially as a freshmen of the drastic changes affecting my school. It is funny how so often negetivity and truth are so interchangable these days. Remember when, in the beginning of catastrophe, they said it would be four months before the water is drained from NOLA and you were safe in your little home north of Louisiana? Yeah, we were in Florida watching our homes flood. There are always ways around problems and I am sure that Cowen and the rest of the Tulane faculty will come up with solutions with the problems at hand.
Child, I truly wish you would work on your rhetoric before you tried to argue your point by pointing out hopeful inadequacies of mine to gain backing here. I truly hope we get to discuss this in person one day and so that you might know the error of your ways.

11:44 PM  
Blogger Marmoset said...

P.S. Cstanton....En Guarde!

11:46 PM  
Blogger MM said...

Oh...and Dirtysouth117? The police will kill you till you are dead if you are out after 2AM.

As opposed to killing you until you are badly injured. Sorry, I had to point it out.

12:14 AM  
Blogger uncertain future said...

wave 06, you can't seriously defend that cowen waited until it was too late to transfer until he decided to inform the students and the professors that begged us to come back that we have nothing to come back to. This forces us to return and pay tuition next semester in order to transfer to a brand new university as juniors. Also, you may not understand, but each engineering program is very uniquely different. By transfering as juniors, we will be completely unfamiliar with the programing languages, math computer programs, and other prerequisites essential to taking engineering at every school. We will be forced to take freshmen level classes as juniors and probably graduate a semester to a year late, which is expensive. The timing of this decision is blatantly unfair after tulane PROMISED we would have a school to return to, and begged us not to transter. I completely understand that they had to cut something, and if they don't want to support an engineering department, that's understandable. It is inexcusable to leave 230 TULANE students with so few options so late in the game.

5:24 AM  
Blogger Marmoset said...

Humor, my dear MM, pure humor.

6:44 AM  
Blogger dirtysouth117 said...

I think whats the most upsetting thing to me is that throughout this whole semeseter i've been nothing but loyal to tulane. i've always proudly stated i was coming back, and quickly corrected those who were quick to bash tulane. I felt like this was my school, like scott cowen and the rest of the student body shared this common bond.
When this whole major cut thing was sprung on us ( clearly for a reason after registration and withdrawl date) i felt like i had been betrayed and lied to. LIke the leader of the institution i was so loyal to was all of a sudden turning around and telling us this big secret he had been keeping.
I UNDERSTAND why, i really do. If i were the president of the university i would've probably done the same thing with the exception of telling the kids whose majors were getting cut WAY beforehand to give them a chance to transfer. my major ( marketing) was cut and changed to consumer behavior. Im not that concerned because I just want to be at tulane. However, if i was one of thekids who was working my ass off at a summer job to pay my way through tulane so i could graduate from a presitgious engineering school, i would be pissed off. Scott shouldn't have just sprung thison us like this, a month before school starts. I've had 4 friends in the past week change their minds and decide to not come back to tulane. And while the 2 am curfew doesnt seem like a big deal, for those kids who've spent at least a year at tulane , they know that the night ( and early morning) life are a crucial part of why we love tulane so much. If this is changed its just another nail in the coffin for some. I think a lot of people are going to attend tulane for the spring semester, see how it goes and then decide if they want to transfer or not. I just hope for Tulane's sake they do everything they can to make this semester bigger and better than expected, because i must say for a girl who has been very hopeful and postive this whole time, I am slightly nervous....

7:02 AM  
Blogger cstanton said...

Marmoset,
I apologize for taking you too seriously. I will be sure to consider your future postings as frivolous and inconsequential.

Thank you for providing us a shining light to lift our spirits. Your patronizing tone makes your words of encouragement ring with sincerity.

I am glad you cleared up the inconsistencies for me. I was trying to get your message straight. Good luck picking up the pieces of your life. After graduation, I will be sure to keep tabs on the progress of rebuilding from my “little home north of Louisiana.”

9:01 AM  
Blogger tubschool said...

I have been a huge supporter of tulane this entire time. As a double major in business, it was very hard to get any classes i need to graduate, so I did not. I took the semester off with the intent to return to tulane for another year. One of my majors was cut this past weekend, Marketing which no one seems to have addressed, neither here nor in the news. Instead, i was alerted by a fedex delivery on saturday. if tulane wants to save money, they shoudl start by not sending things fedex for saturday delivery... just a thought that has mad me mroe upset with the university than i ever thought possible.

9:49 AM  
Blogger Wave06 said...

Uncertain Future-
They have extended the withdrawal date until January 17 for those affected by the program cuts. And if you don't want to withdraw so quickly, they're giving you up to $2,000 to travel around this semester to figure out which universities have compatible engineering programs so you can make the right choice in transferring if you have your heart set on that. And I'm not so sure that engineering programs are so unique at different schools, considering you will be competing for the same jobs, so it doesn't make sense for you to know different information.

tubschool- First, it appears they just changed the name from marketing to consumer behavior-marketing, besides the fact that everyone already in marketing is a junior or senior and will be able to graduate on time, and in the future, they just won't admit any new bschool students into the old marketing major. This also probably wasn't a money issue, with the fedex letters and the fact that the bschool has lots of its own money, that can't and won't be given to the other schools or the university. This was probably a performance issue, and the bschool wanting to rise in the ranks and needing to cut an underperforming marketing program. I'm not saying the students are underperforming, but in the national rankings, the marketing program is lagging behind the other bschool programs.

10:09 AM  
Blogger katiewave said...

ONLY 36 MORE DAYS!!!

10:56 AM  
Blogger Jon Wong said...

You sound like an immature child in your arguments, but your loyalty is AMAZING and that's what really counts in this situation.

There is actually ONLY 35 MORE DAYS!!!

11:43 AM  
Blogger Utena39 said...

You are a short-sighted juvenile.

You neglect to mention the enormous changes occurring to the graduate programs, of which I was a member.

I am not returning to Tulane.

Why? Because they are in survival mode, and while in that mode, will have no regard for students.

Over the past few months the unimportance of the student body has been glaringly apparent.

I have happily transferred institutions, and urge others to do the same.

4:41 PM  
Blogger lotteri123 said...

I saw on this and another site that both finance and marketing were cut or renamed or something else. I have seen nothing on the website about this. Can someone enlightened me?

5:27 PM  
Blogger Kev said...

Marketing has changed names to Consumer Behavior-Marketing according to the Renewal site. I'm not exactly sure the reasoning behind this but I'd wait until the B-School has their official site back up.

Also if you have further questions, email your b-school advisor. They have been very helpful so far for me.

6:12 PM  
Blogger averyTHEdog said...

The strong opposition to the curfew by Tulane students and business owners is not a sign of apathy towards the shitty situation in New Orleans. It is pure realism. Recovery will never happen unless people support the economy by going out and having a good time. This includes excessive drinking.

Like many, I came to New Orleans to have a good time. I still intend to do that, but I might help rebuild some houses, paint a fence etc. Of course I will be sipping on a beer at the same time and helping out the community in a two fold fashion.

6:40 PM  
Blogger Ben W said...

well said averythedog

7:38 PM  
Blogger tulane_muslim said...

The current situation is most depressing, as the prospect of the curfew lasting through the duration of the lagniappe semester is apalling. How can the economy of new orleans ever recover if businesses aren't able to return to their normal patterns of late night operation? New Orleans thrives on its night life, and the stifling effect of the curfew is apparent. Frankly, I cannot say I am very much in agreement with anything that is going on in new orleans right now. This curfew needs to be abolished, and further, in such a time when New Orleans is entering a phase of reconstruction, how can Tulane's administration justify the elimination of almost the entire engineering school? New Orleans needs new levies, and water pumps, the very things that engineers exist to design and implement. It's quite similar to California executing the brilliant peace loving mind, Tookie Williams. A man that had devoted his life to contributing to society, and trying to warn others about the future of a life of crime. Rather than heed his advice the California government chose to silence him. Even in light of the mass media coverage this issue received Governor Schwarzenegger still would not grant Tookie Williams clemency, and unfortunately at 12:01 this morning the lethal injection process began. Sadly, after his breath became shallow and rapid, my brother Tookie Williams passed at 12:35. In the words of Tookie Williams, "Unless we change, we will be incapable of changing the circumstances around us." If we cannot strive to make the changes within ourselves, how can we ever hope to overcome the challenges facing us now in this dark age of reformed gang leader executions and engineer school terminations? Where is our society going? I think it is appropriate here to think of what Jamie Foxx said regarding Tookie, "If that don’t move you, I don’t know what it takes." Even if Tookie Williams really murdered those 4 people, he still wrote a series of children's books that will save many more lives. Much like the engineering school could have saved billions of future dollars by teaching many bright young minds the skills needed to rebuild the foundation of new orleans levies during this time of hardship, we have sold ourselves short of a great achievement in lieu of saving a few dollars. Shame on you Governor Schwarzenegger, and shame on Scott Cowen as well.

7:39 PM  
Blogger Ben W said...

way o introduce a whole different topic abuot the lethal injection of Tookie williams who not only killed 4 people but also founded a gang which has taken the lives of thousands more, man the connections between thatand the hurricane theyre just mind boggling!!! please keep this blog focused on what it was meant for

7:45 PM  
Blogger uncertain future said...

wave06

the withdrawal date is not our concern, its the application deadline for the spring '06 semester, which has passed at the majority of reputable universities. Furthermore, Tulane teaches C++, while many other schools teach Java or other programming languages. Many schools use programs such as mathcad, which are difficult to familiarize ones self with, and which second and third year engineering students are expected to be familiar with. These are the problems that I encountered this semester, and which forced me to take only 11 credits, as i was unable to continue in computer science or take circuit analysis. Furthermore, if we wish to change majors, we are behind in prerequisites to the business school such as language and nonwestern studies. Classes start in 34 days, which is not enough time to transfer

8:02 PM  
Blogger averyTHEdog said...

Tulane Muzzy, You are quite the interesting fellow. Comparing Tookie Williams to Katrina is interesting to say the least. Get back to you soon Mr. Muzzy.

9:43 PM  
Blogger will@tulane said...

Are you joking? The whole save Tookie cause was a complete joke. If anyone deserved the death penalty it was Tookie. He got what he had coming to him. On another note, Brett how come youre always Scott Cowen's lackey? He is terrible to fraternity life at tulane (think Dan Naddler). I can think of very few positive actions that Cowen has taken over the past five years. He had Tulane on his own agenda and listens to no one who disagrees with anything he has to say.

12:32 AM  
Blogger waveroller said...

Tookie set an example to others by being dosed! Better example than any childrens book. Look girls and boys this is what happens when you KILL people. He didn't even die like a man. He acted like a pussy!

10:23 AM  
Blogger Brett Hyman said...

Hey will:

Scott Cowen plays little involvement in the fraternity system. Dan Nadler has been stricter than in the past, but there's no way I will event begin to complain. Other universities have much stricter rules and spies who go around enforcing them. At Tulane, we are given a LOT of leway, even when a frat does something really stupid.

Will, when you hear him speak you'll truly understand. Anyone, and I mean EVERYONE, who was at the recent BU meeting said that they were inspired and enlightened by Pres Cowen. He loves every student at Tulane University, and that's a fact.

1:36 PM  
Blogger katiewave said...

Absolutely Brett!

I have had the privelege of being present for one of President Cowen's meetings in Texas. Like you say, He truly is an inspirational speaker and everyone I know was moved and inspired by Him too. After his story about survival, I don't think there was a dry eye in the room. I know everyone wants to blame Him for the problems, but I think you should hear Him in person first. I mean people would've gone to war if He had asked, that's how motivational His presentation was. Tulane is about people and Dr. Cowen is a people person. I would want no other leader in this situation.

3:26 PM  
Blogger cstanton said...

At Tulane, we are given a LOT of leway, even when a frat does something really stupid.

Great, the last thing we need is to have frats actually be held accountable for their actions.

Even Tookie was held accountable.

5:42 PM  
Blogger Wave06 said...

cstanton-
Tookie killed four people and started one of the most notorious and violent gangs in this country's history. Equating him with fraternities is not only wrong, but completely insensitive.

Fraternities and sororities, while not perfect, are producing the leaders of tomorrow as somewhere near 70% of CEOs of Fortune 500 companies and a good portion of Congress were Greek. Greeks have their fun, but also donate millions of dollars to philanthropic causes each year and comprise the largest extra-curricular group on campus. Greeks at Tulane are held accountable for their actions and also have better relations with the university and other greek houses than at many other schools.

P.S. I'm pretty sure Dan Nadler no longer works at Tulane.

To Uncertain Future-
Why was Tulane teaching such a radically different computer curriculum than the leaders in the field? And is that a reason why they may have been underachieving in the national rankings? Seems like that may be an indication.

6:21 PM  
Blogger BME2007 said...

I think the arguments made on this blog for Cowen after recent events and how cutting the Engineering School in manner it was done is justifiable shows how many idiots attend this school. I will address the following one by one.

To the idiot who thinks NFL players wont donate if we dont have a football team. First of all, the NFL players who came out of Tulane dont make that much money. I dont know what you know about sports, but few nfl players careers last more than 7 years, and if you have watched JP losman lately...he doesnt look like he will be signing any big contract deals. Also, say losman makes 2 million a year for the next ten years (above average time a player is in the nfl)...thats 20 million. The Yahoo donation was 30 million each. If JP donated his entire salary it wouldnt come close. Also, the football team sucks and it will be even more difficult to recruit good players after the hurricane and the knowledge that in 5 years we will no longer be division 1A because of a lack of other sports programs. Yea, the football team gave us more national exposure, did it help out our cause though? No. We lost and people felt bad. They did nothing. Yea we got a nice little article written about us on espn about the team sleeping on the floor week to week, meanwhile we lost money again. Yea we make some money from C-USA BUT we only have a few years left. Looking down the road, as Scott Cowen seems to have forgotten, this wont pay off. Football team should be cut before majors.

To the girl with the pom poms (katiewave) - People are concerned about their future. I came to college here for ME, not Tulane, so when tulane does something that is not in my best interest I get angry..I have that right. NO, i am not being negative. I am expressing my frustration. And I was a huge scott cowen supporter, but going behind peoples back and screwing the sophomores and freshman over...thats inexcusable. You may like a leader that stabs you in the back, but I dont.

Brett
You seem like a smart kid, well spoken and eloquent. But if you dont think people see your alterior motives, you are naive. I love tulane, I really do. But what has recently transpired is inexcusable and unfair. I realize cuts must be made, (after all a college is a business blah blah blah) but one area was singled out among all others. Again, perhaps if people effected by the changes were given advance warning or notice, I would be more sympathetic to the decisions amde by the administration. Can you justify the tardiness of the recent decisions? If so, I would like to hear them.

6:23 PM  
Blogger Kev said...

I think this decision may have taken a while because the Engineering dept. was doing everything they could to prevent the cut from happening.

6:28 PM  
Blogger Ish Kibible said...

Tulane has stepped on a political landmine. If post - Katrina is not the best time to build a robust Engineering Dept, then what would be the best time? What is more relevant?

Pencil pushers have made this decision - and yes, on paper, "Engineering" should be out - based on past performance. But TODAY an amazing opportunity has come out of this disaster, to actually have "Engineering" lead the way, creating innovative ways to rebuild the Gulf Coast.

Yes, it's about money. But why shouldn't money (grants, endowments, foundation scholarships, etc) torrentially flow towards supporting "Engineering" now more than ever?

I think that the "powers that be" are: (1) brilliant in their move to slash "Enginneering", by realizing that it will create an actual groundswell of support to resurrect "Engineering" or; (2) absolutely without vision.

I am hoping the former.

7:04 PM  
Blogger MM said...

Everybody is talking about this curfew. The only real effect it is going to have is bars will close at 2am, which doesnt bother me because thats how it is in Baton Rouge. Even if you are out past 2am NOPD will not say anything to you. And even if they do say something to you it will be "go home." The only reason they have this is to give them probable cause to go up to suspicious people at night. College kids will not be targeted especially around campus. There is one thing that I do know about NOPD, they dont care what your doing as long as your are not causing trouble or peeing in the street. They have much more important things to worry about.

Just to get an idea of the cops take on the earlier curfew, listen to this NPR broadcast:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4932990

The cops interveiwed didnt even seem to know there was a curfew.

7:21 PM  
Blogger cstanton said...

Wave06,

While I meant the Tookie remarks to be a joke (this forum went from engineering being cut to talking about an execution?). I apologize, I did not realize how "insensitive" I was being to the feelings of fraternity members. I will try to be more sensitive in the future.

The Greek presence in politics is of course important. Hopefully the system will continue to produce more fine young men like Strom Thurmond (KA), Trent Lott (Sigma Nu), and of course our President: W (Deke). You all have kept the roophie market in business and maintained a steady supply of the study aid cocaine flowing on Tulanes campus, all while maintaining a full course load. Without appropriate discipline for frats, the Hullaballoo crime watch would be devoid of rape reports after Saturate. My apologies for my insensitive comparison and overlooking these contributions.

7:26 PM  
Blogger Brett Hyman said...

Brett
You seem like a smart kid, well spoken and eloquent. But if you dont think people see your alterior motives, you are naive...Can you justify the tardiness of the recent decisions? If so, I would like to hear them.

Are you serious? You think I have an alterior motive? If so, then get off this site and stop supporting it. I'm extremely offended that you think the time and effort that i put into this site is anything more than my love for my university.

I support scott cowen because I believe he is doing the right thing. Do other people have the right and the reason to agree? ABSOLUTELY. If my major was cut, I'd be super upset. But being upset and blaming scott cowen for having a secret agenda is just insane. People don't get it. See my recent post for details.

7:38 PM  
Blogger THE TERMINATOR said...

When I get back to Tulane im kicking your ass, your supporters ass, and Cowens diaper wearing ass to the other side of the mississippi. Heres to Tulane, what WAS the best U in the South. Don't let Cowen or his cronies ruin it. LETS take back Tulane! A one a two a hullabaloo!

8:00 PM  
Blogger THE TERMINATOR said...

Im looking at Numbers. 200 is the number of DECLARED ENGINEERING MAJORS that were cut.this does not account for sophomores or freshman who have yet to declare.

8:11 PM  
Blogger katiewave said...

bme2007-

I think you are taking out your anger about the major being gone on people on the blog. I thought biomedical engineering was staying(bme=biomed engineering? I don’t know) If we are all idiots at this school then I am proud to be an idiot too. If everyone has alterior motives then just what are they??? Brett don’t let a few bad apples like bme get you down. You cant please everyone. Your blog gives Tulaners a way to keep in touch with each other while we are all away this semester. You do good work, keep it up. I know Nightvision’s Partys are gonna raise a lot of money for our school and our city.

8:14 PM  
Blogger concernedstudent said...

katiewave- you write on the whole foods post's comments section, "I know many students have lots of engineering credits but I think you should consider changing your major so they can stay. Leaving Tulane would be totally turning your back on the school that has loved you."

Does anyone else see the flawed logic from that comment? I know I do. For one, katiewave somehow asserts that engineers can just get up and change their majors with the ease with which it took her to make that ridiculous suggestion.
Hey katiewave, guess what? You can't just do that. We've invested a lot of time and effort into our major and aren't about to switch to some worthless major and become buddies with you. We aren't interested in having glassblowing and dance count towards our 'core' classes. We enjoy with a little bit of masochism our more academic classes consisting of differential equations (oh wait, you probably don't know what that means so lets just say math), physics and others. We want to change the world; not change our majors.
So because your first point about us switching majors is ridiculous, lets go on to your next point about leaving Tulane and how it constitutes disloyalty. Well, for one, a lot of people are getting kicked out of Tulane with no say. Are they disloyal? Is a dean resigning to show solidarity with people that are leaving disloyal? Is switching schools because you want to pursue the education you came to Tulane for disloyal? I'd say no to all of the aforementioned questions. You, on the other hand, are a heartless bitch who probably laughed while writing your ridiculous suggestions. Just because you're probably ugly, a bit overweight, and joined a 'sorority' or go out a lot (which engineers do, just some of them don't) doesn't mean you're somehow better than the people who got screwed over by this deal (and i'm not talking about the engineering majors; not the minor name changes of Newcomb and Tulane College). Do us all a favor and quit treating the engineers like babies and trying to be humorous with your faux-caring attitude.

I have a great suggestion for you: Switch your major to engineering so you learn something valuable, because as of now, your Newcomb education is worth nothing but the flawed logic you keep spewing out of your self-righteous mouth.

Have a nice day katiewave :)

8:31 PM  
Blogger BME2007 said...

katiewave

as usual u missed all my points. i said brett has alterior motives for this blog NOT EVERYONE. Second my major is not gone. Third if I am a bad apple there are a few other hundred bad apples. Fourth, are you a person or a robot who regurgitates the same thing over and over again.

I will not argue with you anymore on the simple fact I dont beleive u have the capacity to understand people care more about their future than one of brett's lame parties. You are the reason Tulanes overall ranking is not what is should be. Its people like you that they accepted that waste space in our institution. But im sure you will read this and completely misinterpret this too.

8:33 PM  
Blogger Jon Wong said...

I am seeing the most ridiculous arguments I have ever seen in my life. And I believe this is worse than when the parents were consistently fighting. I am not going to single out a particular side of the political game but the attacking of one another, such as who supports who, is absolutely unreal. Using verbal threats and hostility is not going to solve anything. I do not understand why we will not be a top-tier school anymore. Organizations, universities, and companies are always faced with constant change. And change has to be implemented especially when there is a dire need to change. Like I said before, everyone within the organization will react differently and there is always cynicism involved in a change, especially after a drastic situation (i.e. Hurricane Katrina/Rita).

President Cowen and his Board Members [“cronies”] made these changes for the better of the university. Perhaps, they could have consulted more members of faculty and staff for more assistance, particularly within Engineering. Dean Altiero even said that he begged President Cowen not to eliminate most of the programs in the Engineering School. There is no way they could have consulted each and every student, it would have resulted in something like this blog with people cursing and threatening President Cowen. I can totally understand the frustrations displayed by people such as BME2007 and other engineers. People are making ludicrous statements that demonstrate no intelligence whatsoever!

A good leader must monitor events within & outside the organization (university). Their ultimate goal, which is to be financially stable for the long-term, cannot be blindsided. They took a long time in discussing this plan and the decision was not made to undermine the engineering department. They analyzed since the hurricane struck as to what would be most beneficial for the university, a ratio of costs and amount of people who would be affected. Although the ways President Cowen communicated this message was poor, he had to develop a complex and quick strategy decision with limited foresight into the future. No one can actually predict what will happen with the events that have happened in the past week. Ultimately, it will take more than Tulane to rebuild the city and you cannot put all the blame on Tulane and President Cowen. We need assistance from residents, politicians, corporations, and the federal government.

A criticism to this Renewal plan, like I have said before, is that President Cowen should have implemented this drastic plan with incremental steps so that the university would have been able to build momentum going into this change. People, by nature, despise of change especially of one at such complexity and size. He definitely should have allowed a longer time period for the programs to end, but maybe that was not possible because financially, it would’ve made it even more difficult. Everyone makes mistakes in decision-making, but you guys cannot realize these mistakes until the mistakes have actually shown. Now, the most important thing is that if these are mistakes, can we recover and learn from them? I would hope that whoever is leading our great university, whether it is President Cowen or whoever, that we do continue to be a great university as Tulane has always been.

My last comment, even though I am not religious whatsoever, President Cowen should ever be referred to as Him or He. That’s hilarious that you would compare him to God. Have an awesome day.

8:41 PM  
Blogger Julia said...

While I hardly agree with Katiewave, I think it was a little harsh to bash a Newcomb education. Engineering is important, yes. However, it isn't the only thing in the world. A Newcomb(formerly, I suppose) education comprises many fields that are important to humanity, including, but certainly not limited to, the following: Philosophy, Anthropology, Languages, and Political Science. These fields have shaped western civilization. Please give them some credit.

9:43 PM  
Blogger StanGogh said...

While I am totally with the rest of the engineers on this horrible decision by Tulane, I am really disturbed at the direction our arguments are moving. We need to stop these personal attacks and insults and focus on the issues!

How can we expect to pursuade anyone when all we are doing is insulting their intelligence and calling them names? Do you expect them to feel any sympathy or even listen at all? Do you think calling them stupid or saying what they're studying is useless will win them over?

We need to focus on the stupidity of the shortsighted decisions made by the board of trustees and their deceitful and dishonorable way of handling the situation, and how these decisions will in reality be detrimental to the school in the future.

These decision highly resemble those of a corporation looking to layoff a bunch of high-paid skilled employees, with the only concern being its financial survival and ultimately the survival of the executives. These purely financial decisions make the annual report look better and the public/shareholders happier. In reality, the quality of the company's product or service goes down, people will stop buying these sub-par products (that still cost the same), and the company loses not only money but the respect and loyalty it had from its customers.

What makes this situation even worse is that the only difference between such a corporation and Tulane is the fact that Tulane is not a corporation, but a university, who's goal is to provide the best education and experience for its students and should have them as their highest priority - not a bit of money. Universities aren't supposed to layoff students.

It is clear now that President Cowen and the Board's primary goal was to save some money. They saw a school full of students on scholarship, with highly skilled professors who required higher engineering salaries. They failed to acknowledge every engineering student that has graduated with a Tulane engineering degree's decision to challenge themselves by picking such tough majors. Most importantly, they failed to reguard the intelligence and hard work that these students and professors brought to the school.

Such a decision may save a bit of money in the next few years, but will also rid the school of many of the quality students it has and countless quality students it could hope to get in the future.

There are so many other ways to save money - many of them don't involve such betrayal and significant sacrifice.

11:36 PM  
Blogger will@tulane said...

Did I just read that Dan Naddler is gone? Praise God. Maybe something good came out of this after all. On another note, I'm assuming some sort of protest will be organized for the begining of next semester. Showing the student body's disagreement with the Cowen changes to the university. This could be the first time that large groups of people will overcome the typical Tulane apathy and really fight for a cause.

Mind you I am in the B-School so I am not the smartest person at Tulane, but Katiewave shup up. You sound like an idot and you are giving Tulane students a bad name.

11:45 PM  
Blogger AcceptableScreenName said...

Hey Brett - it's "leeway" and "ulterior motive" not "alterior". When you are writting those essays for grad school ....the ones that you need Cowen's recommendation for ....use spell check.

11:05 AM  
Blogger patty said...

Would you all growup. There are way more important things going on than whether someone can spell.

12:16 PM  
Blogger Brett Hyman said...

I'm not going to grad school, and I dont need a recommendation from Cowen

12:57 PM  
Blogger PostNola.com said...

Looking for some in depth analysis? try Postnola.Com

-Postnola

1:25 PM  
Blogger TUGrad96 said...

I have read all of these comments and I think that making cuts to any majors at this time is a positive step in restoring Tulane to national prominence. The administration, including Scott Cowen, should have waited until fall 2006 to make decisions on majors to be cut. The administrators did not know what percentage of students in each major would be returning when the decision was made and may have been able to cut other majors and saved even more money by waiting. I am disappointed in how the situation of getting Tulane back to normal have been going. As an alumni that donates money to the university, I think that more communication needs to be done other than town hall meetings. There are alumni and students throughout the country that have no way of getting to a town hall meeting and therefore the only information we have is from this site and others.

Brett:
I think that your love for Tulane is as strong as anyone that I have read. However, it does seem that you side with the administrators on most of the decisions that are made. You talked about you heard that Scott's talks have been motivating, but if you haven't heard him yourself, how do you know for sure. One of the great things about a smaller school like Tulane is your voice can be heard when you disagree with an issue at Tulane. I think as a fraternity president, you could have a lot more influence on the administrators then you are choosing to have. I am sure that not every decision that Tulane has made you will agree with when you get back to New Orleans. Use your influence for something other than being a suck up to a person that will have nothing to do with your life after graduation. See how you would feel to know that the school you spent four years at getting a very good education at is struggling to survive. Not a good feeling.

6:44 AM  
Blogger frightened parent said...

I was just reading postnola.com and they said that face to face advising is being replaced by a computer oriented help instruction program in order to save money. This is not what I paid for my child to experience throughout his four years. Tulane is apparently trying to cut corners anywhere to save money. I am forcing him to transfer for the spring semester.

1:07 PM  
Blogger TulaneSnr said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

2:11 PM  
Blogger TulaneSnr said...

If you read the post it talks about how this semester (Hurricane Semester as it is called), students interacted with advisors via email or phone (they werent going to go to NOLA to speak with them). It also said they MAY do the kiosk thing, WHICH allows for the student to do many thing INCLD finding face to face time with their advisor. Plus, I know my advisor has already said that if I want to schedule a time to meet with him when I get back to let him know so we can set up a time. I have a feeling the postnola blog is kinda a joke, come on Tulane is not going to spend money right now on Kiosks, its just unreasonable. PLUS the blog also said "may",that part of the blog just sounded super sketcy.

Instead of basing decisions on blogs and "forcing" your child to transfer is immature and rash, you should call Tulane, and ask. It's not that hard. I know I'll get slack for this..... but parents like you who make their child transfer because of nonverified information from a blog (come on anyone can have a blog) is silly and stupid

2:13 PM  
Blogger frightened parent said...

tulanesnr
you are completely out of line telling me what i should or shouldnt do with my family or children. Mind your own business and stay out of my decisions. Its my choice to make.

3:12 PM  
Blogger TulaneSnr said...

If you dont want people to comment on your decisions, I would recommend not putting them on a highly-viewed blog

3:30 PM  
Blogger jdyo said...

Are you kidding? postnola isn't a credible source. It's just a bunch of random predictions that are based on nothing

5:10 PM  
Blogger emily said...

Good heavens -- postnola.com is SATIRE!

Trying to figure out how I could "force" my dd to transfer or stay or anything else. .. .

8:07 PM  
Blogger Brett Hyman said...

Brett:
I think that your love for Tulane is as strong as anyone that I have read. However, it does seem that you side with the administrators on most of the decisions that are made. You talked about you heard that Scott's talks have been motivating, but if you haven't heard him yourself, how do you know for sure.


I have heard him MANY times, and I absolutely know for sure. He is part of the reason I went to Tulane in the first place.

One of the great things about a smaller school like Tulane is your voice can be heard when you disagree with an issue at Tulane. I think as a fraternity president, you could have a lot more influence on the administrators then you are choosing to have. I am sure that not every decision that Tulane has made you will agree with when you get back to New Orleans. Use your influence for something other than being a suck up to a person that will have nothing to do with your life after graduation.

I will disagree when I feel the need. There are posts when I question decisions they have made in the past. However, they have unlimited resources and advisors on these issues, and I truly believe they know what's best.



See how you would feel to know that the school you spent four years at getting a very good education at is struggling to survive. Not a good feeling.

I absoultely know how it feels. Most likely, I have more attachment to Tulane than many people. How could you honestly imply otherwise?>

8:15 PM  
Blogger D said...

As an incoming freshman, I may not have developed that famous loyalty to Tulane, but I still decided I would give them a chance, especially when they explained how crucial I was to the reconstruction, etc. etc. Still, seeing how this issue has divided everyone makes me feel less guilty about my inevitable transfer.

The whole reason I came to Tulane was the ability to go into any aspect of engineering. Of course, that's no longer an option. What really upsets me is the engineers looking down at the liberal arts/business students and the business majors acting completely jaded about the situation. I can't imagine what I would do if I had spent $60,000 on my college education only to find out that I may have to take an extra year of classes, and, therefore an extra $10,000+. And don't even try to fathom changing majors that late. The majority of people aren't on a full-ride scholarship and not everyone has an extra $50,000 to burn on restarting a college career.

I wish everyone could see what it's like in the other side's shoes. Something had to be cut. That's just fact. But what if it were half of the business majors? Or the English majors? Some group of people was going to be screwed by the end of this, so whoever it ended up being has the right to be upset. However, simply getting upset and bashing your fellow students and the university's president (like him or not) isn't going to change anything. Just take whatever action is necessary to continue your education and be done with the ordeal. I know it's easier said than done, but if this decision truly is a horrible mistake, then it will show itself in the future and the responsible party will regret it. I am probably more livid than anyone that the school I've gone out of my way to defend has betrayed me and forced me to cough up money on a dead-end road, but all I can do is keep walking and look for a detour.

Some people will hate me for this, but I'll say it anyway. The people complaining about the 2AM curfew should stop acting like children. If you can't handle not being able to go out in the wee hours of the morning for the fear of a nigh-enforced curfew, then you probably have no business being an alcoholic. Honestly, is that the number one thing on your mind? Above coming back to a damaged school in a desolate city, both of which have an unclear future?

8:44 PM  
Blogger doug said...

i've heard that the administration is monitoring these blog sites, and so first let me say that my comments are directed entirely at them:

getting rid of the engineering school is completely rediculous. not to mention ironic, new orleans being in more need of engineers than anything else. how can you say you are interested in helping the community if you dont have any engineers?

a fine arts student may be able to paint a beautiful portrait of the damage, or your english students may write a fine thesis filled with laudatory phrases, but which students would be responsible for putting roofs over people's heads and re-establishing the city's infrastrucutre. you all are morons, and it is a travesty that engineers will not be invited back on to campus and liberal arts students will.

9:46 PM  
Blogger doug said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

9:59 PM  
Blogger wave1212 said...

Doug,
You're an idiot.
New Orleans doesnt need college engineer students rebuilding their city...thats asking for more disaster. Also, you cant tell me the engineering students stay in New Orleans. Additionally, the same argument can be made for every major, so get off your engineering high horse...whos going to bring new business to the city without business majors? whose going to fight court battles for property rights? whos going to provide the healthcare? Engineering is no more superior to any other major. And I'd rather have a seasoned veteran working on my levees them some arrogant college screwup.

11:34 PM  
Blogger another texas mom said...

We have read many times in this blog that many if not most of the engineering students are on scholarship. I just want to point out that a lot of them are on ROTC scholarships, so Tulane is not effectively "discounting" their tuition and covering the difference from endowment income. I would love to hear from an ROTC student to find out if their ROTC scholarships will transfer to other schools with them. After all, they are in the same boat, no matter the source of the scholarship.

8:09 AM  
Blogger another texas mom said...

Wave1212, how will non-seasoned business majors bring in new business? Your argument against engineering students works against business majors as well. I was a business major myself. Work experience is work experience, and everyone has to start somewhere. Why not in NOLA?
I, too, regret that this has become a discussion of "us again them" and who's the smartest and most valuable. That's not going to help anyone.

Everyone has something to bring to the table. Too bad the engineering students won't be able to. I disagree that cuts had to be made now. Why not in the fall after the student population settles down?

8:17 AM  
Blogger dee said...

Statistics are that less than 5% of the US population are engineers yet they account for more than 50% of the GDP. Considering the US is in a brain drain and the engineering scholars of america are graying with huge expected drops in the next decade due to very few students entering engineering it is sad that Tulane had decided to contribute to the future scarcity of US engineers. Even sadder is the perception that Tulane does not care for it's students future. There are a number of freshman students who are only coming for the spring semester and then plan to transfer next year. So the 200 drop of freshman in the spring will be even higher next fall resulting in a much smaller class of 09-10 but I am assuming that they already anticipated that since they are repeatedly mentioning smaller class size.

11:17 AM  
Blogger Ray said...

wave1212,
You're an idiot.

"New Orleans doesnt need college engineer students rebuilding their city...thats asking for more disaster."

Not everyone needs to be a highly trained engineer to assist. Even as Sophomores we know basic engineering structures and can handle some easy but time consuming work. Plus, our professors are experienced and involved in research. Research that will mean big money in grants in years to come if Cowen had some vision.

"Also, you cant tell me the engineering students stay in New Orleans."

We have students from Louisiana that plan to stay including myself. Also many engineering firms in the city recruit heavily from Tulane.

"Additionally, the same argument can be made for every major, so get off your engineering high horse...whos going to bring new business to the city without business majors? whose going to fight court battles for property rights? whos going to provide the healthcare? Engineering is no more superior to any other major."

Actually, we are a little more important right now. Businesses are already in place. They simply aren't all open yet. As more people return, more places will open. No matter how many people are in the city in the immediate future the levees and infastructure need to be fixed now. People need to be researching what went wrong and how to fix it as soon as possible.

For the record I have nothing against any other school. Just in New Orleans the most important professions right now are police, medical, and engineers.

"And I'd rather have a seasoned veteran working on my levees them some arrogant college screwup."

You know nothing about my classmates and me. Just because you have some unknown connection to Tulane doesn't make them your levees. No place online have I read a single thing about some engineering student claiming they're going to rebuild the levees.

9:39 PM  
Blogger BME2007 said...

To the freshman who says we should stop whining about the 2am curfew.

UNTIL YOU HAVE SPENT A CONSIDERABLE AMOUNT OF TIME IN NEW ORLEANS (not 3 days with your parents), you have no opinion of new orleans or new orleans night life. Therefore forming an opinion and judging people based on thier opinions without experiencing new orleans is unfair.

What you dont understand is the econmoic reprecussions this curfew has. New Orleans makes most of (well almost all) of its money off of tourism and night life. People come to new Orleans because they can walk down the street with a beverage in their hand and stay out until the wee hours of the nite. This is a crucial part of making new Orleans what it used to be. If people want to be forced home and thrown out of bars at 2am...they will go to any other city in America.

Also, what you may not know is New Orleans is one of if not the poorest large city in America.

Now, lets do the math. Poor city + Hurricane damage - economic staple = really bad situation.

I understand Tulane has no power over this, so dont bash me about that.

I just would like to enlighten our freshman who ended by saying "Honestly, is that the number one thing on your mind? Above coming back to a damaged school in a desolate city, both of which have an unclear future?"

Yes it is the number one thing on my mind. New Orleans future is very important to me.

12:19 AM  
Blogger patty said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

8:54 AM  
Blogger patty said...

I hate to break it to the engineering students, but, there is a certain way construction works. The army corps of engineers will most likely bid out the job of fixing the levees to a private company, who will contract out the engineering aspect of the job to another private company. They will most likely have no use for non-degree holding engineers. They will have freshly graduated pee-ons to do the long tedious work, and life will go on, because there are engineers that live outside of New Orleans and they will be perfectly happy to assist. Do you honestly think that any company would put a multi-million dollar job on the line by letting a college kid help? I sure don't.

9:47 AM  
Blogger wave1212 said...

Ray,
You're arguments are completely wrong and unjustified...

"Not everyone needs to be a highly trained engineer to assist. Even as Sophomores we know basic engineering structures and can handle some easy but time consuming work."
-Easy work like putting a roof up on a house? I'm pretty sure theres lots of people who do that in the city...theyre called carpenters..and no they dont have engineering degrees and they do just fine...any thing else you want to do, like patty said, will be hired out to private companies very soon.

"Also many engineering firms in the city recruit heavily from Tulane."
-Also, I dont think any engineering firms are crying about not being able to recruit from tulane, nor do I think theyre will be a shortage of engineers cause 20 less kids wont be graduating from tulane. You seem to forget theres a school an hour up the interstate that produces about 10 times the number of engineers tulane once did. And they DO get a quality engineering education at LSU so dont start with that.

"Actually, we are a little more important right now. Businesses are already in place. They simply aren't all open yet. As more people return, more places will open. No matter how many people are in the city in the immediate future the levees and infastructure need to be fixed now."
-The engineers to fix hte infrastructure all already in place too...and none of them have any connection to tulane. Also, we do need businessmen since New Orleans has been an economically poor city even before the hurricane, especially now with several big companies relocating their headquarters...

And finally, me being a lifelong resident of new orleans and a tax paying citizen, they are my levees and I do know whats good for my city.

11:06 AM  
Blogger BME2007 said...

the need for tulane engineers to rebuild this city is a poor argument. Considering most of the engineers are chemical and biomedical thus they would not really know how to design a levee. Secondly, an extremely few number of engineers get jobs as engineers in new orleans. Engineering firms, big time companies, or whatever dont exist in a state with a shamble of an economy. If you dont beleive this look at the data...im sorry louisiana residents...you live in one of the poorest states, this is FACT NOT OPINION.

However, given that New Orleans has the biggest joke of a levee system and pretty much anything else (as we have witnessed over the past few months), a few college engineers might be an upgrade from the morons that built the floodwalls that collapsed. As you may know or not know, the floodwall at the canal that collapsed was designed and built by a private company...almost all that held were done by the army core of engineers.

Lastly, if anyone who lived in lousiana KNEW what was good for lousiana...we would not be in this predicament. EVERYONE knew the levees were a problem, but nothing was ever done. Of course people will blame it on the government, but I hold Louisiana politicians and voters solely responsible. Other states fix their own problems, is Louisiana that incompetent.

3:08 PM  
Blogger doug said...

wave1212:

why is new orleans in the condition that it is?

because the levees broke

why did the levees brake?

bad engineering, poor maintenance.

how do we fix bad engineering and poor maintenance?

with research and development.

where might such a venture take place?

a university

pretty simple logic.



it's just flat out wrong to think that engineers are not the most vital part of the reconstruciton of new orleans. if you think that engineers are not the most important part, then consider how well all the business deals and legal disputes protected the city from this disaster in the first place.

oh thats right, they did nothing. in fact, local politicians and businessmen were responsible for the insuring the levees were safe and able to protect the city and so given the current state of things, one could argue that those disciplines are most responsible for the damage.

5:26 PM  
Blogger Ray said...

I never claimed I'd be physically rebuilding anything within the next year. Let's state some facts:

1) There will be an increase in engineering research after a major engineering disaster.

2) Tulane engineering professors will be eligible to receive research grants for this.

3) I was supposed to begin working with professors on their research this year.

4) Many New Orleans engineering firms do actively recruit from Tulane.

5) I've never heard anyone else call them "my levees." (This isn't really an argument. I just find your wording strangely defensive.)

There are many arguments to be made mainly regarding our numbers. However, to say that because I'm a student I can only do carpentry work because I won't receive a government contract to rebuild the city has nothing to do with anything I'm trying to say.

7:51 PM  
Blogger wave1212 said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

8:28 PM  
Blogger wave1212 said...

lets follow another simple logic plan

Why was Tulane closed this year?

A hurricane hit

What does Tulane have to do to stay strong fiscally?

Cut programs

What programs should they cu?

Ones that cost the most money and produce the least for the school.

Ok, its a shame engineering had to be cut. It really is. But its solely a Tulane University issue within its campus and i think it is completely retarded and wrong to try to bring the city of New Orleans into this decision. Tulane for once needs to think in their own self interest in order to help others.

But if you were to bring NO into this it could be looked at from this view: New Orleans needs Tulane, and if Tulane wants to stay there it needs to cut things...New Orleans will get engineers elsewhere but they will never get another Tulane if it went under.

8:30 PM  
Blogger nytulanedad said...

My only comment is that my son is among the 86% that has reregistered but he has no place to live. He has talked to other students who are in the same position. They did not want to miss the opportunity to sign up for classes last month. But we/they have heard very little from the University in the last three weeks about off campus housing. I wish someone would discuss in a forum like this if this problem exixt with other students. They are pushing these
great enrollment fiqures but are they real?

8:52 AM  
Blogger TulaneSnr said...

I havent heard anything about the situation for off-campus housing or on-campus of where the students without places are going to live. Did your son live on campus before Katrina? If so, he will prb have the same room unless it was damaged (which you know by now). If he lived off-campus and his place was ruined he was supposed to fill out a form, which assuming he did, you should find out rather soon. If you have any problems, my best solution would be to call Tulane and ask for a time table of when you can expect to find out where your son is going to be living next semester Good Luck

9:13 AM  
Blogger PostNola.com said...

For daily updates and more interesting reads, visit POSTNOLA.com

Thanks for everything Brett! This is a great blog that creates a lot of positive discussion.

1:04 PM  
Blogger Ben W said...

postnola is a joke site, its all crazy ideas made up by god knows who.

1:40 PM  

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